Charlie Kane's special ability clarification...

Does Charlie automatically gain any ally that is removed from the game/put to the box? Like if the terror level goes up by 2 and he doesn't try to stop it, does he gain those allies that go to the box automatically?

No. The text says "may gain" which means if he has an encounter and the Ally "is not availble" because it was previously removed from the game (because of a Blight card, or the random draw in the begining of the game), he can still take them. He must still go about the proper way of getting an Ally, it is just that he isn't limited to who is in the deck when a specific one is called. Thiis only applies to specific Allies named in the encounter. if he goes to Ma's and randomly draws one, he is subject tot he Ally deck like everyone else.

Curious, for the league play can he gain allies from other expansions? Thanks.

I would assume that only sanctioned Expansions (and their cards) are available for any League Scenario. If you are asking if Kane can grab a Kingsport Ally during A Tide of Serpents (Base Set only), I would say no.

Any card with an expansion symbol (except the investigator and fixed possessions) are NOT in the game. They are NOT in the box. They are NOT allowed.

Imagine all you own is Arkham Horror with no expansions - except you were allowed to print off the investigator sheets and that's all. That should answer what is and what is not available.

Except that Lily Chen gets her Martial Arts, etc...

I was thinking that all expansion cards were considered "returned to the box" for the Scenario, just like the item list...such that Jacqueline Fine gets her Enchated Jewelry...

But I could see how having access to effects like removing a doom token or such would be unfair to those who didn't have the expansions, so I'll go with it.

I guess it would make the most sense to say his ability is limited to the 11 allies chosen for the game...?

Nijay wrote:Except that Lily Chen gets her Martial Arts, etc...

That why I said "and fixed possessions" are an exception as well.

I was thinking that all expansion cards were considered "returned to the box" for the Scenario, just like the item list...such that Jacqueline Fine gets her Enchated Jewelry...

But I could see how having access to effects like removing a doom token or such would be unfair to those who didn't have the expansions, so I'll go with it.

That why I think it is best to think of it as owning just the base game and nothing else. It isn't "in the box" it just doesn't exist.

I guess it would make the most sense to say his ability is limited to the 11 allies chosen for the game...?

Yes but you don't "choose" the 11 allies for this first scenario. They are the orignal 11 that came with the game. The only time Kane's ability would come into effect would be if Allies are "returned to the box" due to the terror level increasing. Or if any of the cards, like "The Southside Strangler Strikes" that also removes them.

As more expansions are added, then he could go after others that exist in that expansion or the base game that were not part of the 11 choosen during set-up.

OK, I get it now. Sorry for making it more complicated than it needed to be

I have another question about Charlie ability.

When Charlie pick up an ally from Ma's boarding house, can he choose an ally that was returned to the box before the beginning of the game (ie those allies discarded to keep the deck to 11 cards)?

I think not, but the text seem to imply this possibility.

Woodclaw wrote:I have another question about Charlie ability.

When Charlie pick up an ally from Ma's boarding house, can he choose an ally that was returned to the box before the beginning of the game (ie those allies discarded to keep the deck to 11 cards)?

I think not, but the text seem to imply this possibility.

I don't think so. It seems to me that this ability is clearly meant to remove the possibility of drawing an encounter card only to find that Ally is not in the game. Ma's has always been a random draw from the existing deck. Therefore, I think Kane still has to play by the rules when "generic" Allies are drawn but can go fishing in the game box when someone specific comes up.

ColtsFan76 wrote: Ma's has always been a random draw from the existing deck.

My first edition board gives me a choice of allies.

ColtsFan76 wrote:I don't think so. It seems to me that this ability is clearly meant to remove the possibility of drawing an encounter card only to find that Ally is not in the game. Ma's has always been a random draw from the existing deck. Therefore, I think Kane still has to play by the rules when "generic" Allies are drawn but can go fishing in the game box when someone specific comes up.

I don't have the board with me right now, but, if I remember correctly, the text on Ma's states that you can chose which card to pick up form the allies deck.

(and my board is second edition)

Recruit: Instead of having an encounter here, you may spend 10 toughness worth of monster trophies, 2 gate trophies, or 5 toughness worth of monster trophies and 1 gate trophy to take any 1 Ally of your choice from the Ally deck.

You're right! My bad for not looking before posting.

Tough call. Until we get a clarification, I may still lean towards only allowing those in the deck on tis one. I still think the ability is mainly meant for the Encounter cards. Regardless, we probably need Kevin to set this one straight. The language is a bit ambiguous to know what the intent is here.

Yes I have the same question regarding Ma's boarding house. Thematically Kane has "connections" even there so I think he should be able to. The text on Ma's house does say from the Ally deck which implies that he can't however the text on the encounters always includes a alternative if the ally is not available. If he's allowed to ignore restrictions on allies due to the text on encounters why can't he do the same for text on Ma's house?

Kane is a special case. The same applies with his starting Ally. The FAQ does say abilities can be used on starting stuff so we usually play Kane starts with an ally not from the chosen 11 (less there are no expansions in that add new allies).

Personally Kane Becomes very good if he can use it at Ma's. Specially with Dunwich or Kingsport in (Note I don't Own CotDP or KiY and I don't want any of the cards spoiled) since the expansion allies are usually very good. Profesor R. can always be gotten which usually helps in games a lot. Also Kane is great in Kingsport since you never really need more than 3 movement and there are 11 (really 10 of which on average I'd say 7 will be in the box.

allstar64 wrote:Kane is a special case. The same applies with his starting Ally. The FAQ does say abilities can be used on starting stuff so we usually play Kane starts with an ally not from the chosen 11 (less there are no expansions in that add new allies).

The FAQ clarifies that starting abilities can be used during set-up.

So if this ability allows him to take whoever he wants instead of a random draw, then he can certainly do this during set-up. But if this were the case, 11 Allies would still have to start in the game. So Kane would have to select his Ally and then only 10 random Allies would be left in the deck. There is how the procedure should work since thst is how it is handled with Ashcan and Duke. But I am still not certain this is right.

Kane getting to pick Prof. Rice at the beginning is almost an automatic game winner... Him getting to buy him at Ma's regardless is pretty close to a game winner, but at least that costs something and there will most likely be gates open at some locations limiting the effect some.

Kane's ability says that in any phase, "He may gain allies that have been returned to the box"; it does not say that he can take whatever ally he wants for a random draw. Therefore I would interpret this to mean that with Ma's Boarding House, where he has the option to choose an ally, he truly can choose any ally (Of course, as already stated, his choice will almost always be Professor Rice). For a random draw, such as his starting ally or an ally gained from the "Jones came to town" environment, I think he picks randomly from ALL of the allies. Therefore, at the beginning of the game, you would want to pick his ally from the complete deck, before drawing the remaining ten allies that will be available during the game.

My big question with Kane comes from the fact that he can spend two clue tokens in any phase to keep the Terror Level from rising. Unless some errata comes out which states otherwise, he should legally be able to use this ability when Glaaki attacks each round in the final battle! What a horrible, horrible thing to do to my favorite AO!

I always play him with a random ally at the start with 10 remaining in-game. And being able to pick any he likes when "shopping" at Ma's

.

Everything else doesn't make much sense to me but an official statement could of course convince me otherwise.

The Wes

ColtsFan76 wrote:
Tough call. Until we get a clarification, I may still lean towards only allowing those in the deck on tis one. I still think the ability is mainly meant for the Encounter cards. Regardless, we probably need Kevin to set this one straight. The language is a bit ambiguous to know what the intent is here.

The wording seems very carefully chosen to me.

In Kingsport setup: "When preparing the Ally deck, shuffle it and deal out 11 cards faceup, returning the others to the box" (my emphasis)

On Charlie's card: "Any Phase: Charlie may gain Allies that have been returned to the box".

I think he's influential enough to put in a few calls and get someone to meet him at Ma's, even if they have business elsewhere.

(His starting Ally is a random draw, and it doesn't matter whether it's a random draw from the 11 or from all the Allies since if you're playing under Kingsport rules you've already randomly selected the 11... what matters is that there's a total of 11 left in play when you're ready to start.)

It's important because when randomly selecting those 11 that remain in game you're allowed to look at those and then shuffle them so if you know the one you want isn't in there you can draw your random ally from the cards in the box...therefore increasing your chance of getting the one you want.

The Wes

mageith wrote:

ColtsFan76 wrote: Ma's has always been a random draw from the existing deck.

My first edition board gives me a choice of allies.

So, does anybody has a 2nd edition board (I got a first too)?
Are Allies to be picket up at random or not?

Anyway, with such a high trophy cost, I'd stock to the "choice" option.

I have 2nd edition and the board says the sameas 1st. I misspoke because I was going from memory.

I don't think the allies in the box are formed into a deck you can draw from.

Anyway, we only let him use his abilty on encounters as the Prof. Rice thing is slightly broken. Besides he already has another somewhat useful ability. Even with us limiting him to encounters he is still one of the best investigators out there. That high fight/will makes him a monster destroyer and by the end of the game he usually has 3 or 4 allies. I am never sad when Citizen Kane is selected for our team.

So is there any way of getting a ruling on how Charlie's ability is correctly used relative to the beginning of the game and Ma's Boarding House? How long does Kevin usually take before he intervenes with lore from the abyss?

moved: Here's another Q about Charlie: If the Terrible Experiment fails and sets the terror track to 10, can Charlie spend 2 clue tokens to cancel that?