In-game mechanic question

Hi everyone, I'm an Italian player of this great game and I have a question (I tried using "search" but nothing came up) hope someone can give me a hand here.
Anyway:
A couple of days ago my group and I were playing and one of us drew an encounter that raised doubt in our investigator's hearts. At the administration there is a card that lets you move to the asylum stating that you must immediately have an encounter there. Now the player that got the card needed to cure her Sanity pretty badly so she wanted to spend 2$ in order to do so. I promptly stopped because I thought she couldn't do that since the card said "have an encounter there" and the special ability of the asylum is not an encounter per se, but it's actually a replacement of said encounter.

Who was right? How should we interpret cards that offers you rides to locations with special abilities?

Good question!

I would say you have to draw a card (or if there is a gate - you are sucked to another world

)

That's the definition on p.8 AH Rules: having an encounter=drawing a card.

Also p.22 AH Rules clarifies: Location Special Abilities,bla bla bla instead of havind an encounter you may resolve location special ability bla bla bla.

And that's it I suppose

That's exactly what I thought, thanks a lot.

just_me! wrote:Good question!

I would say you have to draw a card (or if there is a gate - you are sucked to another world )

That's the definition on p.8 AH Rules: having an encounter=drawing a card.

Also p.22 AH Rules clarifies: Location Special Abilities,bla bla bla instead of havind an encounter you may resolve location special ability bla bla bla.

And that's it I suppose

This response seems to imply that you can use a special ability.
The card said you had to go to the asylum and have an encounter, and the asylum says instead of having an encounter, you can restore your sanity.

So it follows that you can go to the asylum to have the instructed encounter, and choose to restore your sanity instead of having an encounter.

Now that's exactly what I didn't think... and you sir, you are just hurting my feelings now...

Now seriously: I personally think it should be the other way around with cards that offers you rides and tell you to have encounters in the chosen (or imposed like in this specific case) locations. The rules of the game and the description of the encounters are quite explicit for a clarity purpose in this sense. the special abilities are something that take the place of the encounter, not an encounter. You only have encounters when you draw from the location (or gate) decks, and since there many cards that offers you rides throughout arkham and tell you to have an encounter in the arriving location (or to draw 2 cards and choose which one you have your encounter with) but there is no mention of the special ability of the places you shouldn't be allowed to choose.

Now that we have 2 divergent opinions in this matter, is there anyone else with 2 cents to throw around?

Also p.22 AH Rules clarifies: Location Special Abilities,bla bla bla instead of havind an encounter you may resolve location special ability

I think this rule leaves it open for the player to encounter the space's special ability rather than drawing a card.

just_me! wrote:Also p.22 AH Rules clarifies: Location Special Abilities,bla bla bla instead of havind an encounter you may resolve location special ability bla bla bla.

If you are instructed to have an encounter and have something that is not an encounter, that is "instead of having an encounter" than you didn't fulfill the instructions of the first card, even if you did fulfill the instructions of the location to which you were sent.

Quite a good point, thanks.

mageith wrote:

just_me! wrote:Also p.22 AH Rules clarifies: Location Special Abilities,bla bla bla instead of havind an encounter you may resolve location special ability bla bla bla.

If you are instructed to have an encounter and have something that is not an encounter, that is "instead of having an encounter" than you didn't fulfill the instructions of the first card, even if you did fulfill the instructions of the location to which you were sent.

Exactly, have the encounter as outlined in the rules. I don't see where people are getting the mistaken idea about encounters, it's pretty explicit in the rules.

Algol wrote:Exactly, have the encounter as outlined in the rules. I don't see where people are getting the mistaken idea about encounters, it's pretty explicit in the rules.

Different minds, different interpretations. The card just says to have an encounter there, so I have to believe you can chose a card or a special ability just as if you had walked into the place. Some of the encounters specify that you must draw cards when you arrive, but the meaning of "have an encounter" is left open since the card doesn't know if their is a special ability at the location you will choose (or a gate).

I don't think there's actually room for different interpretations here. It seems quite clear.

Getting to use a location's special ability seems to be different than having an encounter there; As quoted before, you have that instead of having an encounter. Therefore a special ability at a location is *not* an encounter. The card expressly stated to have an encounter.

You must realize that the phrase "instead of an encounter" is not the same as "equal to" or "substitutable for an encounter in all instances".

To me, it seems pretty straightforward that they would have to take the encounter.

Plus it would seem more in line with the setting/mood of the game.

Special Ability = Encounter. That's how I interpret it; that's how I play it.

If the instructions tell you to "draw a card" then I would preclude the Special Ability. But if it just says have an encounter, the Special Ability is legit.

Seems like we need an official ruling!

I tottally agree with myself and with TheCheshireCat

Special Ability is not an Encounter!

Since on the card is written, that you have to have an encounter, then you have to have an encounter.

You cannot use special ability, because you have to have an encounter.

And it's clear (for me) that these are two diffrent things.

Sorry, for my English

I have sent off an email to Kevin Wilson because this is at least the 2nd time in the last month this issue has come up.

More reasons to back up my interpretation:

1) In a regular encounter, you are told to "have an encounter" which is described as pulling a card from that location. But the option exists in a regular encounter to use the Special Ability in place of the card drawe. The provision remains the same and no rules are changed so the basic rules must remain in effect.

2) I slaughter my own language enough. But I am fairly certain that this meaning is "clear" as well: Step 1 - have an encounter. Step 2 - Instead of an encounter, you may use a Special Ability. Therefore, no matter what tells me to have an encounter, I can always substitute in the Special Ability. It doesn't matter that they have or have not been defined as equals. One has been defined as an alternate to the first. So I see it clearly one way and find it hard for others to claim otherwise.

3) If you travel to the new location and it has a gate, you get sucked into the gate. There is "no location" when a gate is in play. So if you believe in this interpretation of this rule, then you are not following the card's direction either. So the logic to say you can't use a Special Ability because it doesn't meet the "requirement" of the original card is no longer valid because there is another possibility of not meeting the card's requirement that is legit.

4) This would be a ringer if it still held true: The FAQ states that if you are told to have an encounter at a different location, it is the SAME as if you entered that location on your own to begin with. You can't get more clear than that. Unfortunatley, this same answer addressed how you dealt with monsters in those locations. The monster ruling was overturned so the FAQ answer was overruled. But the overruling only deals with the monsters, not how you deal with the encounter. So it is hard to say if the rest of the answer is still legal or the whole thing is overturned (in which case they should reinstitute the language for the encounters). Regardless, it was an official ruling at one time that the encounters are treated exactly the same as if you moved in there. That is some pretty hard evidence to overturn.

OK, there is some logic in what you are saying

Still...well...I don't know...let's wait for the answer...

I wonder then if Richard Wilson? can make an extra $1 on this kind of encounter? Wouldn't that be odd? or not?

Hehehehe

There is an Encounter at Historical Society, when you can take a trip to the Woods and have an Encounter there (and even draw two cards, as far as I remember).

Just imagine: "Screw you guys, I won't visit anything! I'm only here to chop some wood to get 1$!"

Chop, chop.

I think the FAQ on Dunwich, page 9 is pretty much on point: It's title: "How exactly do special abilities work?" "The investigator may use the the printed action on the location rather than draw an encounter card for that location...." I think this FAQ changes the rather clear printed rules rather than answers the question, but FAQs often do that. In other words the FAQ writer is saying: here's what I meant to say...

In still other words, the author meant to say "instead of drawing an encounter card" but wrote"instead of having an encounter" forgetting (or changing) his own definition of "encounter".

Or maybe he didn't. It seems wrong to me to send someone to the asylum to have an encounter but then s/he drops by a doctor without an appointment and get cured. Maybe the auther just changed his mind.

I write game rules all the time. Its a constant write and re-write process. And when its all said and done, it's not. There's always something there I didn't mean or forget to relate to something else I changed.

IMO it's really confusing when FAQs change rules.

What you have listed is the FAQ answer that was inserted into the DH rulebook. A later FAQ answer overruled this. This is what I referenced in my previous post.

ColtsFan76 wrote:What you have listed is the FAQ answer that was inserted into the DH rulebook. A later FAQ answer overruled this. This is what I referenced in my previous post.

Yikes!

Then instead of agreeing with you I'm back to disagreeing.... instead.

IMO it's really confusing when FAQs change rules...again

Are you going insane yet?

The FAQ that overuled the FAQ only dealt with how the monsters were handled - it mentioned nothing about the encounters.

ColtsFan76 wrote:Are you going insane yet?

again? instead?

The FAQ that overuled the FAQ only dealt with how the monsters were handled - it mentioned nothing about the encounters.

So was the FAQ overuled or just amended? Where's it at?

Perhaps this will put it to rest.

Sorry for the delay, Brian. My time to answer rules questions is erratic and depends on how tight my schedule is. But anyhow, here are your answers:

On May 13, 2008, at 8:39 PM, Brian Mola wrote:

question: 1) When the Outskirts fill up and the Terror Track increases by 1, all monsters in the outskirts return to the monster cup. So when the terror track goes from 9 to 10 in this manner, all monsters return to the cup as well. However, if the terror track increases to 10 by some other means, there is no way for the Outskirts to be emptied. What happens to these monsters: do they remain in the Outskirts until the end of the game? Or are they returned to the cup like normal?

They should be returned to the cup once the terror level hits 10.

question: 2) When one encounter card directs you to have an encounter at another location in Arkham, are you allowed to do the Special Ability at that location or must you draw a card and have a "real" encounter to fulfill the original card's direction?

You can use the special ability if you want, or do anything else that you could normally do "instead of having an encounter" (such as using the Handyman's ability from Dunwich.)

Again, sorry for the delay.

Oh, you might be interested to know that the Kingsport preview articles are going to start up next week. Hope you enjoy them!

-Kevin Wilson
Fantasy Flight Games

Well, this indeed kinda settles it... I don't like it but rules are rules...