None Human Ghouls

How exactly do people think ghouldom works?

For example would Skinks that Eat other Skinks devolve into Skink Ghouls?

Possibly. Or it could be narrowed to just include mammal races. I have a vague idea that ghouls are supposed to be human but it would still be a nice idea to have ghoul halflings lurk about in the night. Maybe they ate pies with halfling fillings?

Seriously I think that there's a weak link with ghouls and chaos. Maybe it's more an a mutation than a curse or a disease. In that case most races would be immune to ghoulism. Don't have any "by the book"-knowledge though.

I'd be interested in finding out more on this as well. I have been toying of using Skaven ghouls....

According to wiki a ghoul or ghul is a type of demon and so is neither human or anything else.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghoul

However, it does have the ability to shape shift and so in theory I suppose it could take on the appearance of anything or anyone.

It's the combination of cannibalism and hanging around graveyards which causes the corruption by Dhar. Basically, ghouls have acquired most, or all, of the Necromantic Disfigurements from the corebook, and have also been driven insane. I don't buy into the Crypt Ghoul imagery from VC7, where becoming a ghoul causes one to sprout spiky bitz.

I see no reason why non-humans couldn't become ghouls, as long as their civilisation buries its dead collectively in easily-plundered graves (or lives near another civilisation that does) and is susceptible to prolonged Dhar exposure. It does seem that ghouls are considered a 'race', and aren't strictly undead, so they can probably reproduce and make cute little baby ghouls.

I think that its human only in WFRP, a mutation of a sort for those that eat to much Human flesh. Since Halflings have a strong resistance to Chaos its fair to say that it would be a very rare to have a Halfling Ghoul, but not impossible, as for Dwarfs and Elves...

Better still, see the above post

I remember reading that the original Ghouls were members of the tribes that worshipped Nagash at Nagashizzar. Knowing how much warpstone Nagash mined from cripple peak, I'm not surprised that they went a bit odd.

Liber Necris Has this to say:
"Ghouls are a particular form of degenerate human cannibal, altered by dark magic and their own self-perception. They are alive and they feed upon their dead, or indeed any corpse they find. However, though living, they are insane and have also lost certain aspects of their souls, meaning that they have no conscience and no real sense of identity or individual names."

And then (ofcourse) there's an exeption to the rule as can be seen in Barony of the Damned. Not sure if it's more stupid (stupider? what ever...) or "cooler". Societies for ghouls give them a nice little Lovecraftian feel and that guy knew his ghouls.

Well exactly, but when has that ever been a surprise.

Still, the ability to pick and choose has always been one of WFRP's strong points.

It is Nurgle thing - slow corruption.

Well I just attacked by PCs with Skink Ghouls and none of them complained that I couldn't do it, so all is well. ;o)

Aren't Skinks vegetarian

Didz wrote:Aren't Skinks vegetarian

About a 50/50 split between vegetarian and insectivore/omnivore. ;o)

jadrax wrote:Well I just attacked by PCs with Skink Ghouls and none of them complained that I couldn't do it, so all is well. ;o)

out of curiosity where are your pcs that sutch an atack could happen ?

oldscool wrote:

jadrax wrote:Well I just attacked by PCs with Skink Ghouls and none of them complained that I couldn't do it, so all is well. ;o)

out of curiosity where are your pcs that sutch an atack could happen ?

Estragon's Island, or more specifically the Abandoned Temple of Gor-Loq that stands upon it.

NDM, p. 124: "... Morr has set his law firm and Absolute: those who eat human flesh are irrevocably cursed with the taint of the Ghoul."

This shows us a few things:

1): Ghouldom is a curse, not a race or something like that.

2): It's a curse layed by Morr, a human god.

Therefore:

a): Ghouls probably should not be able to perpetuate their kind by breeding (Lovecraftian Ghouls are cool and all, but WFRP Ghouls are different). Thus, if they want to multiply, they should trick/force/seduce humans into eating human flesh. Which is a nice idea for a scenario right there.

b): Non-humans aren't subject to the curse. Greenskins and Skaven eat their fellows (and humans) all the time, and I've never seen anything that shows them becoming Ghouls. Dwarfs, Halflings, Elves and whomever else would only become ghouls if one of their gods had set a similar rule.

Chaos probably also protects its slaves from ghouldom; Beastmen eat Humans, and some Chaos worshippers surely do it as well. Actually, the last case is an interesting one: full scale Chaos Warriors and Sorcerers are probably not subject to Morr's power, but hidden cultists who are still more or less a part of imperial society might not be devoted enough to Chaos to avoid Ghouldom, which creates a nice dilemma for them and an interesting situation into which to throw the PC's

Euh...hum I will second Dr Von Ritchen

According to the Night's Dark Masters: "Morr has set his law firm and absolute: those who eat Human flesh are irrevocably cursed with the taint of the Ghoul."

Only humans worship Morr so only they are affected by his curse but that is a very literate interpretation!!!

Dr. Rudolf von Richten wrote:
2): It's a curse layed by Morr, a human god.

But aren't the gods of different races something of an incarnation of each other? I can certainly remember some first edition book mentioning that high elves of Ulthuan worshipped Mórr.

Then again one might argue that no other race is stupid enough to eat it's own kind. Dark elves propably, high elves never and dwarfs would IMO rather die than eat their ancestors (even though this COULD create an interesting slayer...

). Halflings, they eat anything. Then again they are supposed to eat GOOD food. Still if one would want a ghoul of different race halflings would be my guess.

"According to wiki a ghoul or ghul is a type of demon and so is neither human or anything else."

Right. But IIRC, while studying Arabian/Islamic mythology I`ve bumped into info that Ghul was also a human possesed by a dangerous desert jinn.

"It does seem that ghouls are considered a 'race', and aren't strictly undead, so they can probably reproduce and make cute little baby ghouls."

Well, last edition of Vampire Counts Armybook for WFB strongly disagrees. They are undead again.

And I would extend the general idea about supernatural/magical in Warhammer to the ghouldome question. I believe that it`s because of a civilisational taboo surrounding cannibalism people are being infused with Dhar and "Ghoulified". In other words, Humans (or Elvses, Dwarfses, Halflingses, Ogres...es?) believe that when You eat human flesh, You turn into a Ghoul. So when such act happens the force of belief draws Dhar into the patient. Following, I don`t think there are things like Skink or Skaven Ghouls. Skinks, or Lizardmen for that matter are mostly omnivorous opportunists and in Skaven society cannibalism is accepted hence I can`t see Ghouls developing from that races.

Vlkodlak wrote:Well, last edition of Vampire Counts Armybook for WFB strongly disagrees. They are undead again.

So are necromancers, the Undead tag has simply lost its meaning in WFB.

Vlkodlak wrote:And I would extend the general idea about supernatural/magical in Warhammer to the ghouldome question. I believe that it`s because of a civilisational taboo surrounding cannibalism people are being infused with Dhar and "Ghoulified".

This would make sense, after all Humans such as the Kurgan and Hung seem to commit cannibalism all the time, but not suffer from Ghouldom.

Missed that LAW thing completely.

Well as a curse this part is very interesting, those who eat Human flesh. Looks to me as if it is a curse on the protection of the human dead! "Those", could mean any of the playable races that take and eat humans.

Now, the question is when does the curse get activated? I would say AFTER the Morr blessing of the dead, so if a skaven kills you, there is no chance of him turning into a ghoul because your body was not blessed by Morr. This opens up some interesting theories on what happens to your body if left unbless by Morr, zombie, ghost, etc. Mmmmmmm, interesting death myths.

Hand of Evil wrote:
Now, the question is when does the curse get activated? I would say AFTER the Morr blessing of the dead, so if a skaven kills you, there is no chance of him turning into a ghoul because your body was not blessed by Morr. This opens up some interesting theories on what happens to your body if left unbless by Morr, zombie, ghost, etc. Mmmmmmm, interesting death myths.

In this case, a human killing another human and eating him straight away (i.e. unblessed), which is what happens most of the time (cannibalism is more common in situations of potential starvation than exhuming and consuming corpses just for the hell of it), would not suffer the curse, right? That's not how I would do things, but YMMV

Dr. Rudolf von Richten wrote:NDM, p. 124: "... Morr has set his law firm and Absolute: those who eat human flesh are irrevocably cursed with the taint of the Ghoul."

This shows us a few things:

1): Ghouldom is a curse, not a race or something like that.

2): It's a curse layed by Morr, a human god.

I think you're taking it too literally. The 'curse' sounds more like an in-game explanation as to what and why ghouls are, not a word-of-god explanation.

RobC wrote:
I think you're taking it too literally. The 'curse' sounds more like an in-game explanation as to what and why ghouls are, not a word-of-god explanation.

Shmayme, shmaybe not. But it is what the book says, and, much more importantly, it is extremely 'grim and perilous' and a very good explanation as to why eating human flesh makes you become a ghoul. I like this much better than any alternative reason I've seen so far (except the Lovecraft/CoC ghouls, but that's a whole other kind of thinking).

It's a matter of taste, I suppose. In my interpretation of Warhammer, things like god-given curses just don't fit with the setting. I also interpret the 'Curse of Nagash' as less than literal.