Rogue Trader in 2009

What I realy want from RT are another at least 5 new ranks for each career... God(-Emperor) knows when my players reach 15th, but still I´m looking forward thing

Oh, and who don´t want to go into the Halo Stars (except Imperium citizens, of course

)?

Luddite wrote:I'd just like to ask a little question of the forum crowd...specifically those clamouring to playtest.

Do you guys actually know/understand what it means to playtest a product?

I do. I playtested for Specialist Games (Epic) and Nova Games back in the day. It's not like beta MMOG "playtesting". They actually want written, insightful input on the game rather than just looking for "bugs".

Rogue Trader will be an awesome 40k setting. One thing about the "Inquisition" setting, is technically your PC's shouldn't have to worry about money/equipment. The Inquisition has all the money they want and all the equipment they can requisition.

Rogue Trader on the other hand, money (and the pursuit thereof) is a big deal. Plasma pistol? Trivial! I need 1000 Crowns and soon or my Gellar Field generators are going to fail...The plasma coolant seals need replacing...I have docking fees to pay...that stinking Ratling pawn broker on Cestus V screwed me on my cargo...Working on the edge of the "Law"...

Fun.

Oh, and in the original Rogue Trader, RT's often had private armies (sometimes including Astartes) as one of their Chartered duties was to conquer new worlds in the Emperor's Holy Name. Awesome, eh? Expensive, too...

Aye RT's RP potential does look rather jolly...and i must sya that images of Han Solo in a gothic longcoat spring very much to mind...

However i remain to be convinced given the tremendously underwhelming (for me) 'narrow focus' approach of DH...

RT could go very wobbly indeed unfortunately. I think the worst situation would be to 'limit the scope' to internal Imperium gameplay. As you say MaximGatling, the 'big prize' for RT is the possibility of exploring beyond the reach of the imperium completely, but we'd have to see a radically different and indeed more wide ranging approach to the conceit/subject from Ross and the FFG team than we got from BI...

And frankly, as a GM, i can see that as being a TOUGH design issue, so i don't envy the quill-servitors one bit! I mean...really...what IS beyond the Imperium? Dealing with cargo issues will be fun too, but the PCs will (presumably) have a starship? Why WOULDN'T you head out into the unknown?!?!

Unless of course the PCs will be 'the lowest of the RT community low', just like they are for the Inquisition in DH

Still, i remain optimistic in spite of past evidence, and indeed with FFG in the mix we might actually see some much needed bravery with the IP...

I'm interested in which "Rogue Trader" we are going to see. Time and again, whenever RT is mentioned I always hear Han Solo brought up. Of course the name Rogue Trader seems to fit Han Solo perfectly, but that's nothing like what the original Rogue Trader was envisioned as.

The original Rogue Trader was a Imperial Representative of great power, who carried the authority of the Imperium beyond the Imperium's borders. He had the authority to deal with Xenos, wage wars, sign peace and trade treaties, etc... In the original RT book, some of the people who would become Rogue Traders were retired Inquisitors and former High Lords of Terra. They didn't have a ship, but a fleet at their command.

Think "The Imperium does the Five-Year mission and turns it up to 40k on the dial."

In the long years since that first book, the Rogue Trader idea has diminished somewhat and the title of Rogue Trader has been taken over by, well, Rogue Traders

.

I see two things in that poster that give me a lot of hope (if indeed anything meaningful can be drawn from the poster).

First is the ships themselves. There is more then one and they look rather large. More of an original RT type image then the "40k Han Solo".

Second is the blurb. "Go beyond the Imperium". That also seems to be more in line with the original RT image as opposed to smaller ships focused on smuggling between planets in the Calixis sector.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for small-scale Traveller-type adventures in 40k, but I'm hoping that the original idea didn't get tossed out somewhere along the way.

Luddite wrote:Aye RT's RP potential does look rather jolly...and i must sya that images of Han Solo in a gothic longcoat spring very much to mind...

The possibilities do seem intriguing... equal parts Firefly, Star Wars and Pirates of the Carribean, with extra skulls 'n' gargoyles thrown in for good measure...

Lord Kruge wrote:I'm interested in which "Rogue Trader" we are going to see. Time and again, whenever RT is mentioned I always hear Han Solo brought up. Of course the name Rogue Trader seems to fit Han Solo perfectly, but that's nothing like what the original Rogue Trader was envisioned as.

Etc...

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for small-scale Traveller-type adventures in 40k, but I'm hoping that the original idea didn't get tossed out somewhere along the way.

I heartily agree Lord Kruge. My reference to 'Han Solo in a gothic longcoat' wasn't a statement of preference (although buckling the old swash in space might be fun)

You're right to refer to the original conception of RTs as sort of 'Capt Kirk' figures, now viciously retconned to 'Capt. Kirkius Von Gothika', etc.

I agree that having command of a fleet and exploring the outer reaches would be excellent. However, given the DH didn't allow the PCs to play Inquisitors, i suspect we'll not be seeing the RTs you describe. More like sump rats on an RT ship hoping to amass enough xp to make it to 'unter-petty-officer' or some such...

That said, with FFG in the mix (rather than BI) we just might actually see a bit of design bravery, get the sort of game DH should have been, and get to play the movers and shakers in an RT fleet...

If it at the very least steps out of the mind numbingly narrow focus of DH and actually presents a vision of the Imperium, that'll be a great leap forward IMO.

Playing Han Solo would be fun (he DID fire first by the way), but playing Admiral Piet would be far better...

I wonder if they are going to allow non-humans in this edition? It could work if each non human race had a set of certain skills and talents and advancements available at various ranks no matter their career path. And i think the game would function better if RT has more generic names for the careers.

But I am eager to see.

peacekeeper_b wrote:I wonder if they are going to allow non-humans in this edition? It could work if each non human race had a set of certain skills and talents and advancements available at various ranks no matter their career path. And i think the game would function better if RT has more generic names for the careers.

My inclination is more for careers specific to each species, rather than trying to cram, say, Eldar Corsair, Human Guardsman, Kroot Mercenary, etc all into a single 'Soldier' career path...

My inclination is to actual individual Careers over the 'level up' D&D esque 'Paths'.

Cypher wrote:My inclination is to actual individual Careers over the 'level up' D&D esque 'Paths'.

Unlikely to happen, as far as I can tell... individual careers were tested in an early version of the game, and didn't work - the careers themselves were too inflexible, and you'd have needed a couple of hundred of them minimum for any kind of appropriate diversity...

Neither system is inherently more or less flexible - they're just flexible in different ways. Careers give you choice and flexibility by letting you move between them with considerable freedom... but the individual careers are very narrow and restrictive. Career Paths don't have that external flexibility, but are far less restrictive internally.

Quite frankly, I'm fed up of people piling scorn onto a perfectly good system simply because it vaguely resembles something from D&D...

N0-1_H3r3 wrote:
Quite frankly, I'm fed up of people piling scorn onto a perfectly good system simply because it vaguely resembles something from D&D...

Oh dear...well i'll add to your woes then as what DH presented wasn't 'a perfectly good system', at least conceptually.

It mixes specific 'careers' (Arbites, Tech Priest), with broad 'classes' (scum, psyker, etc.). That mix just jars the mind even if you don't realise why it seems...odd...

My hope is that RT picks one or the other; either a fully fleshed out series of 'careers' in the WHFRP vein, OR a 'class' (or rather 'type/role') system (fighter, rogue, academic, psyker, leader, techie, etc. - and here i'm not making direct reference to any other RPG).

I'm not greatly fussed which personally, i just hope some proper design conception is applied, and some consistency of approach put in place (um...so i can play a Tech Priest but there's no Forge World option for my homeworld...ok then...

)

N0-1_H3r3 wrote:
My inclination is more for careers specific to each species, rather than trying to cram, say, Eldar Corsair, Human Guardsman, Kroot Mercenary, etc all into a single 'Soldier' career path...

Id rather the cram, reason being is that it took 50+ pages to cover the "human" careers in Dark Heresy. You spend that much time on each career for each race and you are talking a 150 pages of the book to cover just 3 races (Humans, Eldar, Kroot). Id rather see the simpler "generic" careers based on the system used in Dark Heresy but with species modifiers based on rank and such.

Duncan Idaho wrote:Hello, I'm also interested in palytesting RT.

Ditto that.

Of course I want the speculated Deathwatch far more. Yeah yeah...I know....

/but you want to be a space marine too, your thoughts betray you!

peacekeeper_b wrote:
Id rather the cram, reason being is that it took 50+ pages to cover the "human" careers in Dark Heresy. You spend that much time on each career for each race and you are talking a 150 pages of the book to cover just 3 races (Humans, Eldar, Kroot). Id rather see the simpler "generic" careers based on the system used in Dark Heresy but with species modifiers based on rank and such.

`
Well that raises an interesting question about how FFG is going to approach the RT system. Is it going to be a simple 'warts and all' continuation of DH, or will there be some redesign?

Obviously, 'they can't please all the people all the time', so whatever's produced will have fans and detractors.

Personally i'd junk the whole DH system and start the RT redesign on a blank page, but i'd suspect that simply won't happen.

So assuming the DH system will form the core mechanics of RT, i think there are parts that need significant redesign.

It seems from the boards on various forums (fora?) that equipment needs a serious looking at. Also, the psyker system seems to cause people all manner of issues, so i'd guess both these need some redesign.

For me the whole character creation advancement system needs a ground floor rewrite.

The system should stay relatively the same, to be compatible with Dark Heresy and so they both can pool from the same generic stash of sourcebooks later.

As far as character creation/advancement, I dont think it needs a 100% overall, just same tweaking. Id rather see the rank system go, but that would have to go for Dark Heresy as well and would require a second edition. So Lets keep that same, but tweak it. More broad/generic sounding careers. Some outside career talents/skills (sort of like elite advances but based on home world, species and so forth) and more of a focus on talents and skills being available upon requirements other then experience spent.

But it doesnt matter, we will al buy it and tweak it ourselves to some degree.

Here's my highly speculative take on how FFG are likely to do this...

First of all, despite the views of some people here, I think that the underlying DH game mechanics and careers system is basically sound. I would therefore expect to see about 30% of DH effectively reproduced in FFG's Rogue Trader.

Secondly, I reckon we'll see a lot of fascinating new background material on space travel, space travel mechanics, the Navis Nobilite, charters, rogue trader fleets etc etc. I also think that FFG are going to build upon the background in DH, and that the majority of the "setting" for RT will be in the unexplored Halo Stars region adjacent to the Calixis Sector. It'll start with perhaps a detailed look into Port Wander, the "Star Wars Cantina" of the Halo Stars region, then go on to detail some legends of the region (solid gold moons, alien civilisations etc etc) and perhaps even set out some new alien races to trade with/eradicate.) This is the bit I'm really excited about.

Thirdly, I think we WILL see new careers. There will be a shipboard officer class career of some description, techpriests (again), some sort of warrior career, psykers, astropaths (watch this space, I'm doing my own version of this basic career) and, most interestingly, Navigators. By extension then, there will probably be new psychic disciplines for Navigators and Astropaths. You never know, they may even chuck in some sort of alien character you can play...

I think it'll be a fantastic system, informed and enriched by the 40k background and setting, but with a more...hopeful and optimistic feel. The Rogue Traders, as exiles/rogues/rebels/pirates could well be free of the prejudices and "dark age" mindset of the rest of humanity, and could in fact be the best hope for peace and excitement in the troubled 41st Millenium...

I'm weirdly NOT interested in playtesting it - though I'm happy to help out with a far duller job: proof reading. It's dull but important, and I'm happy to help, FFG!

Considering it took nearly 20 years just to get THIS version of the 40K RPG, expecting a 100% rewrite of a major portion of the game system is kind of hoping for too much. As others have said no one can be made happy all of the time. I'm fine with the system as-is but I'm alos too tired and lazy to do the work that might be required to 'fix' any of the major issues...though actually I'm fairly happy with the overall system, the only thing I could ask for is an applicationt that make sit easier to creat higher-level and more powerful foes instead of me spending several hours per week writing up NPC's and not beign sure if I'll remember what all of their talents DO...8P
All thigns being the same, I'll play RT however it's run and run it however I like. In the meantime there's always Serenity or 7th Sea to fill my mercantile and swashbuckling interests...

Hmm. Well, I can't say anything more than this right now: You're a smart fellow, Lightbringer.

I don't care who they get to playtest, as long as the group contains at least one person who is a mad powergamer with a keen eye for detecting and abusing brokenness, like Cole.

FFG Ross Watson wrote:Hmm. Well, I can't say anything more than this right now: You're a smart fellow, Lightbringer.

Really? I see. So less a 40k Rogue Trader RPG; and more an explore the Calixis sector/Halo Stars DH supplement then?

Ah well...

I await the results with baited breath Ross.

Luddite wrote:

FFG Ross Watson wrote:Hmm. Well, I can't say anything more than this right now: You're a smart fellow, Lightbringer.

Really? I see. So less a 40k Rogue Trader RPG; and more an explore the Calixis sector/Halo Stars DH supplement then?

Ah well...

I await the results with baited breath Ross.

Well, to be fair, the Calixis Sector was put on the galactic fringe for a reason, to allow for both adventures both inside and outside the Imperium.

Everyone bashes BI (and now FFG) for the laser-like focus of Dark Heresy, but come on, any 40k RPG without such a laser-like focus in order to be of any use is going to have to start nailing stuff down, even if it's just by putting Post-it notes on the wall. Do you really think GW is going to let the RP designers do a Supplement on Ultramar, or Cadia, or the stars and planets of the Tau Empire?

If they're not, then what the hell is the point of a 40k RPG? Answer: There isn't one. So instead we get a focused snapshot of 40k.

BI used the Calixis Sector because no one outside of Dark Heresy cares about the Calixis Sector. There will never be a conflict between 40kTT and 40kRPG.

Just because the RTRPG focus is going to be (probably) on the Halo Stars doesn't mean necessarily that the game will be nothing more then a space supplement for Dark Heresy.

To be honest, as far as I've heard, we never really had all that much information on what BI was planning to do with RT and DW past the high concept taglines. It was all supposition.

I do hope however, that while the focus of the game maybe be on the Halo Stars that there is enough detailed information on space travel and all that goes with it that a GM can easily use RTRPG for all kinds of Travellerish Space Opera goodness.

A game focused around actual, honest-to-goodness, old-school Rogue Traders? I think that would be a great game, but I'm not holding my breath.

Luddite wrote:Playing Han Solo would be fun (he DID fire first by the way)

In 40k, Han Solo ALWAYS shoots first.

FFG Ross Watson wrote:Hmm. Well, I can't say anything more than this right now: You're a smart fellow, Lightbringer.

I'd like to see a place like Bonner's Reach described (Ravenor)

*Falls off chair*

Now that was good news, especially with Lightbringer seeminly touching it on the nerve...

I don't want to playtest either, and I certainly hope that character development with the paths and whatnot doesn't get changed, as I think (and my players actually went on to hate WHFRP a bit after we started trying DH, taking it a bit further than me) it's the best way to handle it in any game I've played at least.

Now, why isnt it 2009 already?