Magic in Breton???

In thinking about a Breton campaign, what are people's thoughts about magic there? I am inclined to not use the College of Magic and have some back-story of Teclis not being accepted or something. The options i see are:

1. Use only Hedge Wizards as per MRB and RoS.
2. Use the homebrew magic categories of WFRP1 (such as elemental, druidic, battle, etc). These are quite good and are floating around somewhere.
3. Make magic careers like in Kislev: one for druid and one for enchanter. Anyone take a stab at these yet?

Thoughts??? Also what is known about Albion in the WFRP world?

By Breton do you mean Bretonnia?

If so there are very few spellcasters, since most Humans with the gift of spellcraft are spirited away by the Wood Elves of Athel Loren, however I'm sure one or two are not spotted and escape the Elves clutches and become Hedge Wizards.

Divine Magic seems to be allowed, and the main Cult is that of the Lady, her Priestess are in fact female Humans returned by the Elves in the role of the Lady's voice in the lands of man. What happens to the boys is a mystery...

In regard to Albion I tend to use an early WD description based upon Storm Warriors, an old BL novel. The Critical Hit site is worth a visit, use to be a lot of information on there, but for v1, so needs updating.

New poster; quick corrections on previous information.

1. There are no "priests" perse, of the Lady. Her voice is the Grail Damsels who are supposedly the girls that the elves spirited away as children. They wield arcane magic, often from multiple lores. There are no rules for playing them as of now, as BI felt they were not suitable PC's when they wrote Knights of The Grail. Whether or not this was for the best is a subject of continuing debate.

2. Magic in Bretonnia wielded by anyone other then a Grail Damsel is viewed dimly at best. In fact there's even a night when male spellcasters are burned in effigy once per year. Occasionally a wealthy family will manage to have their child sent off to the colleges of magic before they're spirited away, but such individuals rarely return to Bretonnia, serving the orders in the empire instead.

As far as divine magic goes; the other gods (aside from Sigmar) are worshiped in varying degrees, with Shallya being the most prominent (her high temple is in Couronne if memory serves) Mannan is worshiped more heavily in coastal areas like L'anguille etc.

Tor wrote:most Humans with the gift of spellcraft are spirited away by the Wood Elves of Athel Loren, however I'm sure one or two are not spotted and escape the Elves clutches and become Hedge Wizards.

Or powerful Necromancers

At least in the case of my very first WFRP character

I thank you for your time

Lord Gorthuar de Veris
Cult of Nagash

"The Critical Hit site is worth a visit, use to be a lot of information on there, but for v1, so needs updating."

Yep. Agreed. And if we`re talking official material, IIRC the only source is a Dark Shadows campaign brochure. Try to Google it.

Given the fleshing out of the Hags and Ice Witches, I do not see a reason the Grail Maidens could not be made into actual careers, instead of the cop-out in the KotG book.

I find the KOTG book pretty sketchy on the whole magic and religion stuff, which is very sad. If everyone worships the Lady of the Lake, what are her prayers? Are there priests and priestesses of the Lady and if so, what spells would they use? What extra skills? Too bad this was not in Tome of Salvation!

Anyone know if the printed anti-wizard sentiments were from Warhammer background (WFB) or just made for the book?

I would like to see a revise and expanded Bretonia book as questing knights is a cool background.

jayhad wrote:
Anyone know if the printed anti-wizard sentiments were from Warhammer background (WFB) or just made for the book?

AFAIK the 'anti-wizard sentiments' are due to the influence of the Fay (a.k.a. Wood Elves) of Athel Loren, who probably thought that being the sole authority on Wizard magic was a good way to control the nation.

Since they kidnap and indoctrinate the children who are magically sensitive, then release them (well, the girls at least) to maintain the whole 'Lady of the Lake' mystification, they control both the religion and the spellpower of the Land, making them the 'Power Behind the Throne'.

I like this, as it's good Roleplaying stuff and I don't believe every nation needs PC wizards, but only those where it makes sense (Like Kislev, but not Estalia, for example).

jayhad wrote:Given the fleshing out of the Hags and Ice Witches, I do not see a reason the Grail Maidens could not be made into actual careers, instead of the cop-out in the KotG book.

I find the KOTG book pretty sketchy on the whole magic and religion stuff, which is very sad. If everyone worships the Lady of the Lake, what are her prayers? Are there priests and priestesses of the Lady and if so, what spells would they use? What extra skills? Too bad this was not in Tome of Salvation!

Anyone know if the printed anti-wizard sentiments were from Warhammer background (WFB) or just made for the book?

I would like to see a revise and expanded Bretonia book as questing knights is a cool background.

The anti-wizard sentiments are mentioned once in the section about festivals. There's one (cant remember the name) that celebrates the grail damsels and their right to wield magic. One of the traditions is to burn male wizards in effigy, or not in effigy if a real one can be found.

In college when the Eye of the Old World Warhammer Fantasy Battles Netcampaign was going on (this is like 1995 or so, 4th edition I think had just come out) I played a Bretonian Grail Knight General and part of the campaign was the retaking of Mousillon which my character and his army performed. After that he become the Duke of Muusillon and banned magic from the duchy.

I only mention that becasue I thought it was interesting when I picked up the newer Bretonian Army Book and KotG and DotD that magic was looked ill upon by the brets.

But I think Grail Magic could easily be concocted for the game. A list of 10 psychological based spells very similar to Grail Virtues but useable on others with extended ranges and effects would probably be a good place to start.

[quote=peacekeeper_b]

But I think Grail Magic could easily be concocted for the game. A list of 10 psychological based spells very similar to Grail Virtues but useable on others with extended ranges and effects would probably be a good place to start.[/quote]

Sounds like an idea, are there any WFB Grail Spells?

Tor wrote:

Sounds like an idea, are there any WFB Grail Spells?

I had a go at adopting some Grail Damsel spells from WFB and Mordhiem here

I think it would be difficult to play a Grail Damsel...

Thanks for posting the house rules for grail maidens. A few comments:

1. give RotIQ and the Ice Witches and Hags does anyone think Grail Maidens would have some alternate casting or other rules?

2. It seems a Grail Maiden would have some silent moves, conceal skills and maybe less of the classic 'wizard' skills. Thoughts?

jayhad wrote:1. give RotIQ and the Ice Witches and Hags does anyone think Grail Maidens would have some alternate casting or other rules?

I am actually becoming inclined to think not - after all it is still an elven magic tradition and therefore should be resolved on the standard Arcane Failure table.

jayhad wrote:
2. It seems a Grail Maiden would have some silent moves, conceal skills and maybe less of the classic 'wizard' skills. Thoughts?

I'm not sure why. They seem to spend there lives cavorting with nobles and living in relative luxury, although training by the elves I get the impression most of them would simply refuse to do anything which might bring them in contact with mud, well outside of a beauty facial.

Ars Mysteriorum wrote:I think it would be difficult to play a Grail Damsel...

Difficult, yes. Impossible, no.

Ars Mysteriorum wrote:I think it would be difficult to play a Grail Damsel...

Is that a bad thing? I tend to enjoy the challenge of roleplaying something alien to myself. Anyway it shouldn't be more difficult then roleplaying a member of an ultimately alien species, like a Dwarf, an Elf or a Halfling.

I thank you for your time

Lord Gorthuar de Veris
Cult of Nagash

Gorthuar wrote:

Ars Mysteriorum wrote:I think it would be difficult to play a Grail Damsel...

Is that a bad thing? I tend to enjoy the challenge of roleplaying something alien to myself. Anyway it shouldn't be more difficult then roleplaying a member of an ultimately alien species, like a Dwarf, an Elf or a Halfling.

I thank you for your time

Lord Gorthuar de Veris
Cult of Nagash

I'd certainly find it easier to play a human raised in an alien reality then something that's thoroughly in- human to begin with.

with the permission of Jadrax here are his Grail magic rules in a handy V 1.0 PDF

http://www.mediafire.com/?ajxnzmubbr0

also could i realy like to finish this (you know add artwork and fluff ext ) but my actual art scills suck. could any artists who would be willing to do some work for this contact me plz

You may want to spell and grammar check it as well! ;o)

but then it wont conform to the standard of WFRP books we are all use to !

Good Point, well made! ;o)

So gonna make use of those for my next bretonnia campaign. I've a player who'se been wanting to run a Grail Damsel alongside her husband's knight for a while. She'll be happy ^_^

I am really starting to wish I had spent the time to polish this up now...

who says you can't still?

TheWarriorPoet519 wrote:who says you can't still?

Currently, my diary.

Actually apart from that it really needs a decent Editor to give it a look over, at the end of the day I am not the best person to either proofread or check my own work for consistence and clarity.