The most useless/unplayable investigator

I am amazed no one has named the gangster -- forget his name. He is my bet for worst investigator, mainly because of his 3 sanity. With the expansions, sanity seems to get used up much faster than stamina -- leastwise, that is our experience. Just 3 sanity means he is running to the hospital or taking madness cards all too often.

We think Bob Jenkins is good, and we have done okay with Dexter Drake.

Gloria Goldman is great for the OW. Two draws, and choose your favorite. Sort of an OW version of Bob Jenkins.

James Whats-his-name, the trumpet player, is pretty good. I have used him a couple of times with some success. I see in the thread that a few players don't like him.

Some we have never tried -- one of them would be the gymnast woman or whatever. I think she joined the set with DH, if I remember right.

tibs wrote:
It would appear that there are precisely zero characters who have mastered the art of spellcasting.

That's probably a very good description of the Lovecraft world anyway

I like almost all of the spellcasters -- especially since they get some help in the expansions.

The Unique Item that reduce the Sanity cost is invaluable It's enough to turn
Dexter into a very good fighter (when having 5 Stamina is good for him) --
let's see, he could cast 4 Withers, 4 Shrivellings, and 4 Dread Curses in one turn,
that should be able to take quite a few things out (And his special ability
would make it easier for him to arm up with the combat spells).
.
Feeding the Mind and Heal go together very well, not only for keeping yourself up,
but for healing all your buddies. And of course, if Carolyn has both of those,
she can fix anyone anytime anywhere.

As far as the Nun, I have not played her with any house rules yet,
and still she ends up very effective. Last time I played her she started
with Enchant Weapon, so she stopped if in Ma's to borrow McGlen's
shotgun and immediately dispatched some 3-toughness physical-immune thing.
Get her any weapon before her blessing expires, and she can defeat
those evil critters rather handily.

And yes, Kate's special ability gets an exponential boost if you
have Arcane Insights in the party. Even without it, I've hit lucky
days where her ability activated something like 6 times in 6 turns
(combination of Mythos and encounter phases). Have her tag along
with another investigato, and you don't have to worry as much about
getting sucked through a new gate before you get your five clues.

357magnum wrote:
Does anybody like Ashcan Pete?
I think his ability is rather useless...
We improved it by house-ruling that if he's in play, each deck must be shuffled after anybody draws a card.

I have a friend who always plays Ashcan Pete. He loves starting off with Duke. To him, the ability to look at the bottom of the decks is just gravy. He always makes hay when he plays Ashcan. One time, he ended up with 4 allies and a Tommygun and went around shooting monsters. Another game he found an Enchanted Sword and some gun and was the monster beater for the game.

As a side note: I think his ability is as useful as what's on the bottom of the deck.

Hastur wrote:

Also, there is a card in the King in Yellow expansion that lets you look at the next three Mythos cards and arrange them in any order (Arcane Insight?). I once had an investigator who could successfully cast that (it's -4 spell check, but you get +1 for each tome you have**) and if you know where the gates will show up, Kate becomes the MVP of the endgame!

That's exactly what happened in our game last night. Arcane insight is the spell you're thinking of. Dexter had drawn it as one of his starting items.

When we had drawn Azathoth as the AO, things looked grim because we were using the KiY Herald. We didn't want to add yellow tokens to the doom track since there is no final battle with this guy. This meant adding them to the terror track and a whole lotta blights.

With the spell and Kate's ability, we totally dominated the board. Everyone gave their tomes to Dexter and he just hung out in the asylum refreshing his sanity cost for the spell. The group determined which gates would open and where.

The only difficulty came from a few mythos cards.

In the end, we won by sealing all the gates.

We felt the combo was quite broken. It was fun to do once, but we agreed we wouldn't want it to happen the same way again since it took almost all the tension out of the game.

Here's how I rank them:

24. Sister Mary - can't fight, not a good gate closer, starts broke, clueless and weaponless

23. Monterey Jack - has his own room at the asylum

22. Ashcan Pete - I'm not sure I have ever used his ability

21. Dexter Drake - jinxed

20. Mark Harrigan - has a room next to Monterry Jack at the asylum

19. Amanda Sharpe - she's well-rounded... she does everything poorly...

18. Vincent Lee - slow and can't fight, often gets "stuck" for turns at a time

17. Jim Culver - low lore spell caster, but he does kill mummies and wraiths

16. Marie Lambeau - low lore spell caster, but removing the doom token helps

15. Wilson Richards - better version of Amanda...

14. Harvey Walters - utility spell caster, has killer combo potential

13. Gloria Goldberg - great in the outer worlds, not so great at actually closing the gates...

12. Diana Stanley - her abilty is one of the best as the game goes on

11. Rita Young - She's fast and can fight

10. Kate Winthrop - If she stops two gates from opening she's more than worth having

9. Michael McGlenn - He does one thing and does it well

8. Jenny Barnes - $$$$$. She's my favorite to play by far. Versatile.

7. Carolyn Fern - the best spell caster, once she gets spells...

6. Bob Jenkins - Bob is a brawler

5. Darrel Simmons - Fast, great ability, has money, can fight

4. Leo Anderson - Leadership is a game winner

3. Jaqueline Fine - Precognition is a game winner

2. Mandy Thompson - Research is a game winner

1. Joe Diamond - Everything I said about Sister Mary, but the exact opposite and most importantly he kicks the crap out of Ancient Ones.

Chad, you made me laugh the formless spawn out of me!

I like Joe Diamond, he's got a very cool portrait too, But I think that he's used to paying visit to Monterey Jack and Mark Harrigan quite often.
A will of 3 never helped anybody, not even Kate Wintrop.

By the way, why do you say that "Leadership" is such a game winner? it's useful, but it just prevents ONE Stamina or Sanity loss from ONE character, once per turn. It helps for sure, but... I don't know, I must have missed something about it.

MadPlanarian wrote:

That's probably a very good description of the Lovecraft world anyway

I like almost all of the spellcasters -- especially since they get some help in the expansions.

The Unique Item that reduce the Sanity cost is invaluable It's enough to turn
Dexter into a very good fighter (when having 5 Stamina is good for him) --
let's see, he could cast 4 Withers, 4 Shrivellings, and 4 Dread Curses in one turn,
that should be able to take quite a few things out (And his special ability
would make it easier for him to arm up with the combat spells).

Actually, you must exhaust it after use.
This means you reduce a sanity loss from ONE spell...
Still, it helps a lot.
Casting two Shrivellings and paying just 1 STA is definitely a dream coming true

Bad luck we have never drawn it.

Nice work of classifying investigators.

I personally would go for 3 tiers

The excellent
Joe Diamond => GOO slayer. Clearly broken with a combat skill against some GOOs
Mandy Thompson => free reroll
Jenny Barnes => Shop squatter, who finances her colleagues trips to the asylum. beware of her low speed.
Gloria Goldberg => A woman always wandering "outside". Keeps finding good things when in other worlds.
Carolyn Fern => Excellent fighter, excellent caster. Enough cash to act.
Michael McGlenn => "Boo, I took 0 damage". Starts with excellent equipment.

The would-be lamers
Sister Mary => Clueless, Moneyless, Helpless, Worthless. (House Rule : Gets blessings for free in the church. We should switch it to "doesn't roll for blessings")
Ashcan Pete => Good stats, good starting items. But investigators other than he and Sister Mary have a special power. (House rule : whenever someone choose an item / spell among many, he may place the item/spells left on the bottom of the stack)
Amanda Sherpe => Can end decent, or even good. Can end useless. (House rule : if you don't like her starting equipment, reroll everything ( all items and skills) once)

The average
All others, who may have limits but also good things, either great skills or usefull starting equipments

With Joey D. if you have one clue token it is like having a Will 2 greater than a monster's horror rating... I have never had a "bad" game with the P.I. Plus he is the only one to succesfully storm Sentinal Hill and kill the DH in our games. But, mostly I rank him first because if you are playing with just one investigator he is the best. The big bads cringe in fear of the 20+ dice he throws on turn one. If he has the Fight skill or the shotgun (or both), you can't lose. Joey D. is the baddest thing in Arkham and unlike Cthulhu he is on your side. The cherry on the top is he starts armed and is usually able to seal a gate after turn 1.

As far as leadership goes, think of all the times you were one sanity or stamina away from doing what you wanted whether it is horror checks, reading tomes., or the difference between getting through an outer world or being lost in time and space. Remeber, it is a race game, and Leo always gives you extra turns you wouldn't have had without him. Plus there is the times he starts with Prof. Rice...

Emmanuel M wrote:nt.

Ashcan Pete => Good stats, good starting items. But investigators other than he and Sister Mary have a special power. (House rule : whenever someone choose an item / spell among many, he may place the item/spells left on the bottom of the stack)

I was under the impression that this was the case anyway, i.e. that all discarded cards* that do not explicitely say 'return to the box' (like Elder Signs do) are put on the bottom of their respective deck, in the order the discarding player chooses (assuming they're discarded at the same time).

We used this to great effect last game, were we 'cheating'?

*cards that you do not choose when you shop, one-use cards, cards you lose when you go insane/k.o./devoured, etc. etc.

Yeah, discarded items go on the bottom of their decks, not in a separate pile. This is also important if an encounter/effect has you shuffle an item deck after searching it.

MillMaster wrote:Yeah, discarded items go on the bottom of their decks, not in a separate pile. This is also important if an encounter/effect has you shuffle an item deck after searching it.

OK

So Ashcan Pete is decent after all. And only Sister Mary and sometimes the student "suck". I find Monterey Jack to be decent. He has decent fighting skill and very good starting equipment after all. Of course he pales in comparison to Joe "AncientSlayer" Diamond and Michael "Tommygun" McGlenn. But unless you have one of those two on your side, Jack is welcome

BTW, thank you for the answer

The problem with Ashcan Pete is he can't cast spells, there are never Elder Signs at the bottom of the deck, and the common items at the bottom of the deck are the ones nobody wanted in the first place. In the end it is almost always better to draw from the top of the deck. So you are stuck with a broke investigator, who pays too much for a lame ally, and has a useless special ability.

The good thing about him is it is fun to call him "trashcan" or "ashtray"... or some other names that are simiular to "ash"...

Ashcan Pete + Old Journal Scrounging for the win!
Seriously, three clue tokens for a dollar? It's awesome.

C.H.A.D. wrote:The problem with Ashcan Pete is he can't cast spells, there are never Elder Signs at the bottom of the deck, and the common items at the bottom of the deck are the ones nobody wanted in the first place. In the end it is almost always better to draw from the top of the deck.

Just two points in the opposite direction:

1. Not being able to cast spells has never bothered me much. Spellcasters are disliked in my group.

2. When shopping, I have drawn two items that I really wanted to purchase, but of course, I can't. But if I give Ashcan Pete some money, he can go pick up the item I couldn't get. Is it awesome? No. But I wouldn't completely dismiss it either.

Additionally, in a recent game, a player drew two elder signs, but was only able to purchase one. The other was discarded to the bottom of the deck and Ashcan was able to buy it.

A somewhat rare instance, but not unheard of.

...and don't forget the situation when a single investigator doesn't have enough money to buy expensive items like the Sword of Glory, or an Elder Sign. Then he/she can place them at the bottom of the deck, and the other investigators give Ashcan some cash. And starting with an ally isn't too bad either - especially in a game vs Cthulhu Duke is great!

C.H.A.D. wrote:The problem with Ashcan Pete is he can't cast spells, there are never Elder Signs at the bottom of the deck, and the common items at the bottom of the deck are the ones nobody wanted in the first place.

I think Ashcan has a bit of a bad rap. Remember, there are lots of good items, common and unique, that are discarded after use (dynamite, molotov, many tomes like my favorite common; the Directors Diary

), so Pete might manage to grab some of the most useful from the bottom of the deck. Also, don't forget that when Pete is getting his starting equipment he can use his ability. Looking at the bottom card of the spell deck is nice when there is a good spell, and I have played a game where a strong caster persuaded Pete to go buy Find Gate.

No one plays the nun in my group, not even with special rules. Her biggest crime is not being much of a character in a game full of real personalities. That freaked out priest on the encounter cards is less bland, even if he is usually a jerk. Yes, some other characters are a little blah, but they are at least balanced by being strong in-game.

My wife is in love with Leo Anderson

, and I admit, that when it is just the two of us playing, I also appreciate Leo's special ability. Two investigators are hard pressed as it is, and Leo has saved my butt many, many times. However, I could see how Leo's ability might get lost in games with lots of investigators.

I think that with the Sister Mary house rule, she is not THAT bad if she can get equipped right.
The last 2 times I remember the Dunwich Horror actually being killed by someone, it was by Sister Mary...

While some investigators may have more powerful abilities, any player can play an investigator well if they know how to exploit that investigators strengths and shore up their weaknesses...

Hastur wrote:

Just two points in the opposite direction:

1. Not being able to cast spells has never bothered me much. Spellcasters are disliked in my group.

2. When shopping, I have drawn two items that I really wanted to purchase, but of course, I can't. But if I give Ashcan Pete some money, he can go pick up the item I couldn't get. Is it awesome? No. But I wouldn't completely dismiss it either.

When I was referring to has lack of spell casting I was referring to his abilty allowing him to grab spells off the bottom of the spell deck. Does it really matter what spell he grabs?

I suppose if you happen to have a guy with a lot of money and all the elder signs are clumped and Ashcan happens to be near then you can use his abilty once... Awesome.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't spells tradeable? It could be useful to get a good spell, like Bind Monster, or a combat spell, in order to pass it off to a good spellcasting character (or one that didn't start with a combat spell, etc)

this is funny because everyone hacks on sister mary and monterey jack, the two first characters I started my first game with arkham horror to learn the rules

well, the house rule that sissy can keep her blessing (e.g. not has to make a roll) make's her well... MUCH better in most cases. I never ever had a 4 when rolling a dice with her though.

also 7 will power is great against masks, useful for spells, she has a nice luck/lore slider and fight isn't that useful anyway if she's able to get a good sword from another character.

jack on the other hand has some problems with his mind, but somehow i was mostly lucky when rolling a dice for the horror check. he's got plenty of money to buy some nice things at the beginning, even though I had bad luck and never drew a elder sign card.

both can have lore of four which is useful for sealing gates.

this shall not mean that the other's are not better

but I would not agree that these two are completely useless.

well, after (or at) the first game that is

Dexter Drake: Give him the tomes so he can use his ability to draw spells. I think he may be outclassed by the Kingsport librarian who can read tomes w/out a penalty.

Sister Mary: With Nodens from Kingsport, Sister Mary begins the game with a Noden's Blessing card!

Ashcan Pete: He needs to be loaded up with money to do the shopping. There is *one* Rumor which requires a sacrifice of an ally, and Pete is the only investigator who starts with an ally at the beginning of the game.

I still haven't found Amanda Sharpe useful, because we'd rather buy stuff at the Curiousitte Shoppe then spend money for skills. Also, does anyone think the politician from Kingsport will be all that useful? He seems to pale compared to the other Kingsport investigators.

aka. Washu! ^O^

Charlie Kane is a brawler. Good Fight/Will plus starting with two common items and an ally make him a monster masher from turn 1. The irony is he's such an effective monster killer he rarely has to use his "Settle Down!" ability.

I think all investigators are playable. Honestly, anyone can be a monster hunter, or gate sealer, or any other role. So I don't put much stock in characters geared to be a fighter or magician unless they are exceptional. Seriously, Sister Mary has collected her share of monster trophies. To me, the best investigators are the ones that save the most time. Arkham Horror has a lot of tempo challenges. All of the penalties in the game relate to tempo - LiTaS, going to the hospital/asylum, being delayed, failing a gate check, movement rules, etc. So all my favorite characters are the ones that offer incredible tempo advantages.

My 7 Stars, in no particular order except for #1, randomly with hockey analogies.

#1 Wendy Adams. Starting a hockey game 1-0 is good times. Call her the center.
Jacqueline Fine - as useful as a goalie.
Diana Stanley - solid, enduring, loves swords. Like a wing.
Mark Harrigan - best Changed candidate and equally good in Arkham and Other Worlds. A checker, and the most able drunk in Arkham.
Daisy Walker - My choice for best spellcaster. Some spells/spell combos are too good with no costs.
Luke Robinson - Quick tactical monster nuker / emergency gate closer. Like a good defenseman.
Mandy Thompson - Bad stuff happens much less frequently. Good stuff happens more. Like a wing. (We first used her to reroll combat checks, lol. Nicknamed her ability "calling in the hacks.")

Least favorite: Marie Lambeau. Her mediocrity is rampant, she's a pure support character. I never figured out how to make a pure support character fun for me. Witch Blood is nice, but not quite nice enough on its own to make the top rankings. Her Third Eye ability is funny, since she's not going to be casting many handed spells imho even if she can get them.

I'm not saying that those 7 would make the best team in the world, or that I would always pick from them if I could. Just my vote for "most powerful overall".

I think for me I like all play styles - brawler, gate closer, support character - and any character can play any role if they draw the right/wrong cards, and what is more important than ranking investigators is figuring out how your team works together. Give the bad character a shot next time, they might surprise you.

Lets drop in with some a completely different opinion:

Worst character in this game is Mandy Thompson.
Of course the first rounds I got her were just fine and everything was great, but she is just off-balance:
A free reroll - with actually only rerolling all the failures - every turn!

Even if everything goes wrong and the GOO awakes - hey no problem Mandy is around, lets get the meanest (blessed or grappled) guy the biggest gun (probably Mandy anyhow) and after scoring 5 sucesses or more just reroll the rest and watch the still sleepy deity bleed. Don't forget to repeat this every round!

As a result of this I startet to use Mandy less frequent than before in solo-multicharacter or multiplayer games. In our group drawing two Charakters and keeping one is very popular; because some Characters are shunned (mostly Gloria and Jim), also often enough you draw the very same Charakter you had last round.

If the thread concerns mostly about the weakest charcters I would go for Gloria, because her ability is a very nice idea, but her skills make it kind of pointless for the difficult gates. If you are a futile monster basher - due to an aweful Will/Fight ratio - you can easily compensate it with some weapons and a few more visits at the Asylum. In my opinion being designed as a gate closer and not being able to perform the task is a much harder drawback. And her speed of three is really annoying!