Black Powder Week

Didz wrote:But the official view is that magic IS dangerous.

And the rules support that view.

I don't know why jadrax is being such an ass. He just probably wan't to have a bit higher fantasy setting where the magic is mundane and safe, but that isn't how every WFRP2 book that I've read goes.

A word to the wise: Go play D&D

Moracai wrote:

Didz wrote:But the official view is that magic IS dangerous.

And the rules support that view.

I don't know why jadrax is being such an ass. He just probably wan't to have a bit higher fantasy setting where the magic is mundane and safe, but that isn't how every WFRP2 book that I've read goes.

A word to the wise: Go play D&D

Well at the end of the day it comes down to how a GM wants his game to be perceived by the players. I tend to be obsessed with consistency and rationale, mainly because my players are not Warhammer experts and so it helps them make good choices if my game is consistent.

They would have heard from various Sigmarite preachers and zealots that magic is the stuff of chaos, and using it without express permission will get you burned. So, it would be pretty dumb of me to start parading magical entertainers through the streets of Nuln in flagrant breach of my own game background, even if Forges of Nuln chooses to prescribe that idea.

doc_cthulhu wrote:

Then to the topic? Any other ideas to be included for Black Powder Week?

All Charcoal Burners from the surrounding areas are invited into Nuln during the Black Powder Week. As their produce is important to many of the city’s industries they are treated with food, alcohol and company to their hearts content by the various Guild Masters. Since Charcoal burners are not known for their social finesse, they end up causing all kinds of mayhem with their indecent behaviour.

Moracai wrote:

Didz wrote:But the official view is that magic IS dangerous.

And the rules support that view.

I don't know why jadrax is being such an ass. He just probably wan't to have a bit higher fantasy setting where the magic is mundane and safe, but that isn't how every WFRP2 book that I've read goes.

A word to the wise: Go play D&D :wink:

So far you have contributed a net value of zero ideas to this thread, simply refused to answer and ignored questions put to you and are now making personal attacks because your argument is clearly untenable.

Come on guys! Let's all play nice! We all love the game and play it the way we like.

@jadrax. Here's some answers for you.

jadrax wrote:Really?

Yes, I really think so.

jadrax wrote:Secondly, why you need the position the wizard within 30 yards of the crowd is beyond me?

There is no need to position the wizards within 30 yds of the crowd. The spectators can damn well see from a distance should any daemons appear due to T's curse.

The reason I believe you asked this question, was becouse you flicked through rulebook when I suggested you to take a look on the quadruple T's curse table. This is where you are ignoring my suggestion and twisting it to a rules-knowledge competition. The T's curse table is much more than just a collection of rule effects. Most of them are designed with the words "Role Playing" in mind. Why else would you get milk curdling than to prompt a response from the peasants (or a crowd, for that matter).

jadrax wrote:The chance of generating 4 matched Die on a glorified light show is low at worst - and even then, how is it any different to watching the firework display malfunction and set fire to it's operators exactly? Or watching a knight muck up in a mock joust and get trampled to death under his own horse?

Indeed a wizard that would use all his 4 dice in a light show would be a rare and stupid breed. There's a chance, however small it is, to invoke the quadruples with just a single die.

The thing is that the common man in WFRP is depicted as supersticious and distrusting of magick. The curdling of milk, for example, really doesn't turn that situation for the better. And neither does any appearing deamons in the middle of the show, however small a chance there is for that to happen.

jadrax wrote:In a game where Realms of Sorcery says that Court Wizards have become very fashionable throughout the Empire, and where Journeyman Wizards have to travel the Empire finding work to do, and finally where Battle Wizards are stored in lead lined containers, What exactly is it that you think wizards do do?

I'm afraid that I don't understand your question here fully. If you are suggesting that court wizards are there for the people's amusement or magic tricks, I beg to differ. My view on them is that they are primarily for counseling. Secondly, they are (unintentionally) there so that the nobles might compete upon the wizards' favor and gain more status in the eyes of their peers through that. See Master Lucas Pfandleiher (spl? Apocrypha 2) for a WFRP example of a court wizard.

I really hope that that clears things up. Otherwise please feel free to start another thread on the subject, I promise to attend that thread for all of your wants and needs :P

I nicely asked you to stop de-railing doc_cthulhu's thread many posts ago. I must admit that I have done the same.

M

Moracai wrote:I nicely asked you to stop de-railing doc_cthulhu's thread many posts ago. I must admit that I have done the same.

M

Nah. Lively conversations is what forums should be all about. After all this forum isn't modified as BI's was so there can be harsh arguments IMO. I honestly have to say that I've never thought about the role of wizards in WFRP more than during this exchange of opinions. Seriously - I'm not just trying to get you guys calm down. :wink: To spectators as me who don't (obviously) have the same amount of knowledge of WFRP as you guys these kinds of things bring up much more good points than your basic "how is this handled rule-wise"-topics.

I for one have nothing against de-railing this topic (or any of my own topics for that matter). :-)

The inherent problem with the random and fickle nature of magic in WFRP2 (and Dark Heresy) is that the randomness has some rationale, but is primarily a purely gamist attempt at balancing Magic. As such, it does not take those same tables which are meant to restrict magic in an adventuring environment for PCs and extend it naturally for a magic-using society.

If you do extend the random tables and apply them universally, doing the math will show that in WFRP2 there really is very little "safe magic" and that nearly all magic, even the most minor types, can have catastrophic effects. Unfortunately, that fact is then largely ignored by the majority of the world in the setting.

There's a vast disconnect between the inherent danger in the tables and the setting's use of magic in the Empire.

Moracai wrote:See Master Lucas Pfandleiher (spl? Apocrypha 2) for a WFRP example of a court wizard.

As doc_cthulhu is happy for me to reply here, I will point out that it was I myself who updated Master Lukas Pfandleiher to 2nd edition for the Black Industry site.

Additionally as he actually *is* a spell caster who casts spells to create Magic Items purely for the profit and pleasure of rich Nobles and Merchants, I think to reference him really undermines your case significantly. (He is by no means a Court Wizard however.)

jadrax wrote:Additionally as he actually *is* a spell caster who casts spells to create Magic Items purely for the profit and pleasure of rich Nobles and Merchants, I think to reference him really undermines your case significantly. (He is by no means a Court Wizard however.)

Actually, he *isn't* a spell caster who casts spells to create Magic Items...

What that does to your case, I can't really say... :?

Moracai wrote:

jadrax wrote:Additionally as he actually *is* a spell caster who casts spells to create Magic Items purely for the profit and pleasure of rich Nobles and Merchants, I think to reference him really undermines your case significantly. (He is by no means a Court Wizard however.)

Actually, he *isn't* a spell caster who casts spells to create Magic Items...

What that does to your case, I can't really say... :?

Oh goody, you have reached the nit-picking stage.

To Clarify:
Lukas is a Runesmith who uses Dark Magic to churn out cheap magic items for the pleasure of nobles and makes sacrifices to a Daemon he bound in a wardrobe to identify magical items. - this is your model of safe and acceptable spell casting, while a few Journeymen together and having them cast a slightly advanced Glowing Light is clearly 'too dangerous'.

And for the unbelieving I quote -
"In addition, he once was a promising Runesmith, a profession that officially ended in short order when he accidentally discovered a long lost method of binding Daemons into the Runes. After dabbling in such dark practices for many years, he has since moved away from the daemonic arts to resume his career as a trader, and despite his involvement in the darker side of magic, a nicer daemon summoner you could never hope to meet."
"However he will sell the occasional potion as detailed in Realms of Sorcery and some items he has inscribed with temporary runes."
"Whilst carried on their person, the wielder has access to the Dark Magic talent, which Dwarf Runesmiths may use for inscribing runes."
"Lukas generally saves this as a last resort, since the Daemon charges in quarts of humanoid blood. Lukas is a nice fellow, and dislikes such practices, but he is also a practical businessman, and will use this resource when all other means have failed."

jadrax wrote:Oh goody, you have reached the nit-picking stage.

No probs, you reached that already on the first page of this thread :-)

jadrax wrote:To Clarify:
Lukas is a Runesmith who uses Dark Magic to churn out cheap magic items for the pleasure of nobles and makes sacrifices to a Daemon he bound in a wardrobe to identify magical items. - this is your model of safe and acceptable spell casting, while a few Journeymen together and having them cast a slightly advanced Glowing Light is clearly 'too dangerous'.

And for the unbelieving I quote -
"In addition, he once was a promising Runesmith, a profession that officially ended in short order when he accidentally discovered a long lost method of binding Daemons into the Runes. After dabbling in such dark practices for many years, he has since moved away from the daemonic arts to resume his career as a trader, and despite his involvement in the darker side of magic, a nicer daemon summoner you could never hope to meet."
"However he will sell the occasional potion as detailed in Realms of Sorcery and some items he has inscribed with temporary runes."
"Whilst carried on their person, the wielder has access to the Dark Magic talent, which Dwarf Runesmiths may use for inscribing runes."
"Lukas generally saves this as a last resort, since the Daemon charges in quarts of humanoid blood. Lukas is a nice fellow, and dislikes such practices, but he is also a practical businessman, and will use this resource when all other means have failed."

Oh goody, you have reached the quoting your own writing and pretend that it's canon stage

I am not saying its cannon at all, I did not call upon it as evidence, you did!

I am saying you chose a very bizarre example.

Righty-o.

Either start a new thread about how magic is portrayed in WFRP2 or don't, I really don't care.

But as entertaining as our little exchange has been, I tire of your games and wont be baited by you anymore. I hope that our disagreement (or whatever one could call the last few posts) hasn't gotten to you on a personal level, I know that it hasn't gotten to me.

Happy trails