[Fireborn] Awakened Humans?

I was musing over this while writing about Karma pools in the Fireborn System thread.

What about humans who've learned to not only cast spells without causing Taint, but also to draw upon more Karma then usual?

I hate to use WoD terminology, but the only term I could think of, at the moment, is Awakened Humans.

The basic idea is this; they have one major power trait, which functions similar to Humanity/Heritage for Scions, which represents how "Awakened" they are to the world and its' natural order. They'd have a secondary stat, probably called "Humanity" or similar, to represent general Experience Points, but it doesn't have a Ranking like the main Power Trait.

On its' own, the Awakened Trait does very little; it mostly just provides auto-successes to Spellcasting, with each rank being a single auto-success. So Rank 1 Awakened is One Auto-Success, Rank 2 is Two, et cetera.

Now, here's where it diverges a bit.

First, having an Awakened Trait at all, even at Rank 0, allows an Awakened Human to cast Spells without causing Taint. They still follow all the rules of Spellcasting, they just don't cause any Taint normally. At Rank 0, they also don't gain any Auto-Successes, making Spellcasting into as big of a pain in the ass as it is for Scions and regular human Magi.

The Awakened Trait also determines how much Karma they can call upon. See, they have the same Karma pools as humans, and that never changes. Although I might add an Edge at some point which requires a certain Awakened Rank and makes their standard Karma pool 2x. Living on the edge, I know. :P

But when in places of Karma, they can use it to "increase" their pool. In short, the Karmic area allows the Awakened Human to make their Karma pool go further, based on their Awakened Ranking. So at Rank 1, an Awakened Human in any Karmic Area, for all intents and purposes, doubles their pool. At Rank 2, while in a Karmic Area of Rank 2 or higher, they triple it, and so on.

The biggest thing to keep in mind is that it's solely based on the Karmic Area they're in. So even if someone is Awakened Rank 5, if they're in a balanced area, they still only have a 1x pool.

This means that, technically, someone who puts their main ritual chamber into a Karma 5 Area will always have their maximum-sized Karma Pool, making spellcasting easier.

When someone leaves a Karmic Area, their pool shrinks back to normal size. The way this's handled is, basically, division. If you spend half of your Karma pool and are forced to leave an area before it's regained, then you only have half of your Karma available whatever the size. In short;

Awakened Human with Earth 4 has 3 Karma left. He walks into a Karma 2 Area. Assuming he has at least Awakened Rank 2, his pool expands to a maximum of 12(Base Pool of 4, plus the two additional "pools" provided by the area), but he still only has 9 Karma points currently(Base available Karma Points of 3, which is expanded by the two additional "pools").

The fluff is that they have additional "pools". The hard mechanics for phantom pools would, frankly, be a pain in the ass. So the actual mechanics would just be <Earth x [Karmic Ranking of Area + 1]>. The actual mechanics of determining the new Karma Points would be <Current Points x [Karmic Ranking of Area + 1]>. Leaving that area resets the Karma Pool to its' default value([Earth]), and the Karma Points are <Current Points / [Karmic Ranking of Area they just left + 1]>, rounded down.

This sounds like more of a pain in the ass then it is. It might be even more of a pain in the ass for other people. I'm fairly good with math on the fly, so it might be harder then I realize. If so, tell me. For me, I wouldn't have an issue with it.

The "Humanity" Experience points are gained normally; doing stuff, existing, et cetera. "Humanity" has no Ranks, as I mentioned prior; Awakened Humans are as human as any other human, and so they only gain experience points to spend, without being Ranked at how human they are.

The Awakened Trait, on the other hand, requires knowledge being gained in regards to the supernatural. If you want to use a WoD example, think of it as Arcane Experience from Mage. Awakened Humans don't gain experience towards the Awakened Trait unless they learn or do something supernatural.

For instance, an Awakened Human is a Private Investigator. He has a mundane case where a guy wants to find out if his girlfriend is cheating on him. The Awakened Human does some stakeouts, follows the girl, and finds out she's with another man...to kill people. He stops them. Hurrah, end of story. But no Awakened Experience unless something supernatural occured, either casting a spell, consulting a creature, et cetera.

In short, the Awakened Trait is a muscle. It doesn't work if you don't use it.

As the Awakened Trait increases, it takes more exposure to earn more.

There isn't any system behind gaining Awakened Experience; it's just advice that the character should never gain more Awakened Experience in an adventure then Humanity Experience, unless they stumble across Cthulhu sleeping on a park bench.

I'm also thinking that the character could gain, for free, a point of the Casting Skill for becoming Awakened and each Awakened Rank he has, up to a phantom score of 12(Increasing the skill up to 6 + 6 free Ranks from being Awakened Rank 5), which would go towards mitigating penalties to his Casting Skill instead of actually having an effective Rank of 12 in it.

I like it generally, although I'm not sure that tracking fractional karma pools is worth the effort given the rate at which humans recover karma anyway. I'd be tempted to just give them the full appropriate pool every time they cross a threshold as I don't imagine situations where it would actually make a difference would occur that often anyway.

I imagine that it'd only matter if something Karma-related happened. I'm not talking about, like, "You've driven through three Karma 1 Areas while getting to the place you're going; modify them appropriately."

My biggest problem with that would simply be that it might become, as bad as it sounds, too easy to regain Karma if they got a full pool whenever they left or entered a Karma Area. As bad as it sounds, I can't recall how humans regain Karma outside of Action Scenes at the moment, so I'll need to look it up.

That's my biggest worry, though; someone being able to exploit a free refill by, for instance, sleeping in a Karmic Area and getting a free refill whenever they enter or leave.

Edit: Alright, having gone over a quick refresher, I don't think refills would be the best option. It'd seemingly negate the "penalty" for using Karma in narrative scenes.

Hmmmm...perhaps a compromise of sorts. Something like the pools not multiplying, but stacking. For instance....

Example: Garry Tresden, the only publically-practicing Awakened Human in London, has a Earth of 5, giving him a normal Maximum Karma Pool of 5. Currently, he's at 3 points. He has an Awakened Rank of 3.

He needs a lead on a hand-crafted wand he found at the scene of a murder, so he goes to meet one of his Fae contacts at a bar it owns. The building has a long history, and it's a Karma 2 Area. While in the Karma Area, his maximum Karma Pool is 15(Base 5 + [Base Pool x 2]), but he currently only has 13 points; while the two phantom Karma pools are full, his personal pool has only 3 points in it currently.

While there, a fight breaks out when some robed wizards come in, attempting to assassinate the Fae. After a protracted battle in the bar, Tresden is down to a Karma Pool of 2. Running after one of the wizards, he leaves the bar. His Maximum Karma Pool resets to 5, and he currently has 2 points remaining due to having spent one of his personal Karma points in battle.

Basically, if you walk out of a Karma Zone with more Karma then when you walked in, it gets put back down to the number you had when you walked in; after all, you'd likely spend the phantom points before going into your own reserves. If you have less, then that becomes your new current total.

Then again, I can't see why I couldn't include both. Like I said, I personally prefer the original one, but I also know that not everyone can or wants to do division like that in their head. I can't see it altering anything heavily as long as all Awakened Humans play by the same set of rules, whether it's stacking or multiplying pools.

That seems like an easier way to do it. BTW Garry Tresden

Trevelyan wrote:That seems like an easier way to do it. BTW Garry Tresden :lol:

You heard me. :P He's the only publicly practicing Awakened Human in London. Works as an investigator, occasionally with the London PD on crimes they can't solve. He also has a spirit assistant named Hob, who's a spirit of air trapped in a skull.

...Wait, I'm being told that I cannot, legally, do this. Fuck. It's always the small-time authors that beat you to the punch.

This's worse then that time I tried to market Larry Cotter, a boy going to school to be a wizard at Cowsores' School of Magery and Magic....

Igtenio wrote:
On its' own, the Awakened Trait does very little; it mostly just provides auto-successes to Spellcasting, with each rank being a single auto-success. So Rank 1 Awakened is One Auto-Success, Rank 2 is Two, et cetera.

I've been thinking of changing this to special Rerolls, with the chance to pass, instead of Auto-Successes. The idea being that they can more finely control their spellcasting, but don't have quite as much absolute mastery over it as Auto-Successes suggest.

As I said, they'd be special Rerolls, meaning that you could reroll dice that succeed or fail.

So, for instance, if someone got three successes more then they needed, they could avoid backlash by deciding to reroll some of those success die and potentially trying to fail.

I've also been sketching out the ideas for Awakened Humans' major magic items. In short, unlike Karmic items, their items are ways of channeling their own Karma into different forms. Mystic Items replicate the effects of spells, whereas Enchanted Items give extra points, rerolls, auto-successes, and so on for dice rolls. They completely lack the ability to create Karma Batteries, and Scions lack the ability to utilize their items unless they take a special Edge for it.

I'm writing out and will go into more detail, but that's just the gist. :P

Also, I've been thinking of adding a "Third-Eye" to Awakened Humans, allowing them to analyze mystical things. I'm thinking bonus die or worthwhile descriptors for things, with issues keeping it open for too long. Might also add a "Type" list, to designate the types of beings an Awakened Human knows well enough to look at and see. A Scion, for instance, would be "Supernatural", "Dragon", and "Human", assuming an Awakened Human knows those three types well enough to spot all three aspects.

More on the Mystic and Enchanted Items;

The specific items which Awakened Humans use are called Runes. Unlike regular Karma and Enchanted Items, Runes have no inherent magical properties of their own. They require an Awakened Human to spend Karma on them in order to function. They're essentially a mystical circuit, with Karma providing the charge.

Runes are in two distinct varieties; Mystic Runes, which mimic the functions of spells, and Enchanted Runes, which enhance mundane properties.

Both, however, function in the same manner; Runes are molds for karma. If every effect is a different shape, then each Rune is the mold for that shape. In order to manifest the effect, an Awakened Human must spend Karma, which "fills in" the Rune and causes it to function. Which is where the name comes from; while a pen might not have anything resembling a traditional rune on it, its' karmic form would be in such a way that it channels karma into a specific effect, which has a unique shape to it.

Mystic Runes are based upon the patterns of spells, and allow an Awakened Human to use a spell without having to make Spellcasting rolls and risking Backlash from too many successes. All Mystic Runes also have, inherently, all casting options built into them; however, the Awakened Human must possess the Casting Option to utilize it in the Mystic Rune(I'm thinking of allowing Awakened Humans to buy just casting options, which don't allow the spell to be cast, but do allow them to utilize it while using an associated Mystic Rune).

Using a Mystic Rune costs only a single Karma to fire off a spell with baseline options. If the Awakened Human can utilize them, a single Karma point can also be used to power the Casting Options, up to the usual, with each point functioning as a single overkill success, if the Awakened Human had cast the spell traditionally.

Enchanted Runes are items which have their mundane properties enhanced. For example, a jacket may not provide much protection against an attack; however, a Rune Jacket could increase in density until it acts like armor. A pair of fighting gloves might increase their owners' basic physical prowess, whereas a pair of reading glasses could increase his mental capacity.

Enchanted Runes provide a bonus of some sort to a regular action. This takes the form of Rerolls or Auto-Successes to Skill and Aspect rolls(So far. I'm looking to add more; I just haven't balanced point costs for them). Each point of Karma spent on an Enchanted Rune activates its' bonus for a single action appropriate to its' effect. Therefore, a sword which gives a bonus to Melee would be good for one attack, whereas a pair of Air Aspect enhancing reading glasses would be good for one Air roll.

Both types of Runes are bought with Edges. Mystic Runes are the most straight-forward; the Level of the Spell is the Level of Edge that the Rune requires.

Enchanted Runes, on the other hand, are built using points, with each Level of Edge giving different point totals. The current setup, from one to five, is 2 - 4 - 8 - 12 - 20. Example costs for a Enchanted Rune are, per dice/success;

Skill Reroll - 1
Aspect Reroll - 2
Skill Auto-Success - 2
Aspect Auto-Success - 4

For Knowledge Skills, buying the bonus 4 times allows it to apply to all Knowledge Skills. Thus, a single reroll for all Knowledge Skills is 4 points, and a single auto-success for all Knowledge Skills is 8.

Each Enchanted Rune must also be in a form which is conductive to its' bonuses. Therefore, while a necklace might give bonuses to Interaction rolls, due to increasing personal charisma, a Necklace couldn't make its' owner shoot a gun better.

Also of note is that a single Rune cannot be both Mystic and Enchanted. However, it isn't unknown, for Awakened Humans who need it, to buy two physically compatible Runes of each type. For instance, an Awakened Human might have an Enchanted Rune Sword that gives him 2 Melee Auto-Successes and 4 Melee Rerolls(Edge 3), while also having a Mystic Pommel Stone for it that can cast Aegis on him(Edge 2).

Two Runes with the exact same effect cannot stack. If someone has a pen that gives them rerolls to all Knowledge skills, they cannot also use a Scarab Necklace with rerolls to Knowledge: Occult and gain both bonuses. In the case of Enchanted Runes, the largest bonus supersedes the other and is considered the only one. Note, though, that differing bonuses do stack; if the pen gave rerolls to all Knowledge Skills, but the Scarab Necklace gave Auto-Successes to Knowledge: Occult, then both could be used to get rerolls and auto-successes to a Knowledge: Occult roll.

Mystic Runes function as spells when it comes to stacking.

The concept is one I heartily support, but I'm not a fan of the execution...

Fireborn never struck me as a setting where the common man is unaware of magic/karma (quite the opposite), but rather simply uninformed about it.

However, the broad idea of humans 'awakened' to some karmic potential is still a good one, and one with a pre-existing precedent. As demonstrated by the Brotherhood of Cernunnos, human beings exist whose heritage grants them some additional 'spark' beyond the normal, some unusual potency or quirk that separates them from the common mass of humanity.

I also don't generally like the idea of humans being free from producing Taint, at least not as some default additional quirk. Perhaps as the trait of some particular heritage (a Fae-blooded human might have some of her ancestor's innate gift for wielding magic, but the same might not be the case for Titan-kin, who might instead be supernaturally resilient).

I agree, for the most part, with you. It isn't that the common man is unaware of magic, merely that they either don't know much about it, or it's something that they know, but they don't know they know, if that makes sense.

Also, I want to note that "Awakened Human" is an indefinite placeholder until I find something better. The reason I used it is because it's a good descriptor; sadly, it's a good descriptor for many concepts in many RPG settings, and it's overused to the point that using it here would carry innumerable baggage. So, while I have no clue what to replace it with, and I'm gonna use it until then, it's not something to look too deeply into when it comes to execution versus concept. I'm not saying you did; I just hadn't made that clear yet.

One of the concepts I've found in Fireborn, which is a very powerful setting element, is that of the aberration. The being which, really, wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the clusterfuck that the world went through, with the loss of Karma and all. In the default game, when these magical beings start returning, they're hit with the existence of Scions; creatures which're a melding of human and dragon, and which were absolutely impotent until someone hit the metaphorical light switch. Then they're basically saying to the collected supernaturals looking to use humanity "Guess what? We look and make Karma like humans, but have the powers of a Dragon. Suck on it."

The Scions are very much deus ex machina. Karma comes back, everything wants to make Humanity into the meat of a Doomsday sandwich, and the Scions basically say "Oh no you di'int!".

When I was making Phoenixes, I carried that further; Phoenixes are the ultimate outsiders, absolutely unknown in the Mythic Era except for the occasional aberration which was the equivalent of a MacGuffin, and directly caused by the world becoming a clusterfuck and suddenly being fixed. They're like a flinch when someone plugged up the Chamber of Sorrows, manifested as people. On top of that, they're people who're supercombustive to Karma; you fuck them up too much until their Karmic Pattern starts to fray, and they ignite and make a new one, complete with new face and all.

That isn't normal, to say the least. They're like humans who've had a sudden growth spurt, racing towards being Beings of Karma, and are imperfect for doing so. Yeah, they have all of these powers, but if you don't handle them gently, they'll literally/metaphorically burn you. Also, they're fleeting; the Phoenixes which exist now are going to be the majority of Phoenixes that ever exist, so part of it is taking part in a world you've never known, creating a future you can never be a part of. Dragons and other Karmic Creatures are going to be around until the current Era is at an end, but even with an enhanced lifespan, Phoenixes will be gone long, long before their karmic step-brethren join them.

The following is very fluff intensive, by the way. :P

<Fluff!>

Awakened Humans, I think, are a logical extension of that. I haven't typed up comprehensive fluff for them, like I did Phoenixes, so this isn't cut and dry. Instead of being humans that were so spiritually maimed that they took all the newly free-floating Karma and made something anew, they're the next, stable, logical step. Humanity's been in a funk since Karma went away, atrophying to the point that their natural Karma pools, even in a Potential Karma 5 Zone, like all of London, are only a third of what they could be in the Mythic Era.

The concept behind the Awakened Humans is spiritual evolution. They're a preview, of sorts, of what all human souls will eventually be. They're what humans would've been by now, if the Mythic Age hadn't ended. Humans were retarded at some point in their spiritual evolution, and Awakened Humans are those who've overcome that. And there's a reason and source of that retardation, talked about in the GMG, but it's not really important here.

The point is, humans have been spiritually evolving since the Mythic Age. While it was slowed afterwards, it was still happening, and between it and the retardation, it's going to be a while still until all of humanity attains the next level, so to speak. Of course, if the things in the darkness have their way, humanity's gonna be gone and/or enslaved before it gets there.

The thing with natural races is that they create Karma, but they can't use it like creatures of Karma can. At the same time, creatures of Karma are hell-on-wheels when it comes to Karma usage, but can't make it worth a shit.

Humanity, being natural and adaptable, is slowly closing that gap with its' evolution. If you believe in major physical evolution, it could even be construed to be an off-shoot of that; in order to survive in a world of Karmic Creatures that want to eat your face, humans need to become more adept at Karma usage. Survival of the fittest. They're never gonna be as Dragons, but they'll become a force of reckoning.

In that sense, Awakened Humans are very much like Scions; they're a duality. Whereas Scions are Supernatural Souls in the bodies of Natural Beings, who've gained a measure of both, Awakened Humans are evolved souls in mundane bodies who can work the supernatural better then their unevolved brethren. While Those Who Dwell Below introduced magic to humans, humans have been refining its' usage, and the usage of Karma.

That's why Awakened Humans, by being Awakened, don't generate Taint from Spellcasting; whether humanity consciously knew it or not, they knew collectively that when they cast magic, it did bad things to the surrounding magical area.

So one of the first evolutionary responses that a soul makes is the simplest; it doesn't shit where it eats, by being tuned-in enough to not generate taint from spellcasting. It's one of the first steps of working towards being a Karmic being, since it's fairly hard to stick around with Fae and Dragons when you're taking a metaphorical dump every time you make a light to read by.

</Fluff!>

I'm not arguing that the concept of humans with unique heritages, who awaken to them, isn't interesting. But Awakened Humans don't have any special ancestors, or special circumstances. They aren't the long-lost descendants of Merlin or Solomon, they haven't been hit with Karma-Ray Radiation, and they didn't read the Karmonomicon.

They're simply humans who've gotten a few steps closer to that light at the end of the tunnel, when they can effectively fight back against the forces trying to wipe them out without having to rely on machines. Sure, a machine gun is pretty effective against Fae, but a human is as helpless as any other human without it. Awakened Humans are peeks at how that'll change.

Addition to the Enchanted Runes cost;

1 Point of Temporary Armor - 1
1 Point of Scene-length Armor - 2

The difference between the two is that Temporary Armor only lasts a single turn; it needs to keep being reactivated every turn, or the first time you're attacked that turn, if you want the effects to stick.

Scene-Length Armor, on the other hand, lasts the entire scene, once activated. It gives more duration, and saves on Karma costs, but it also costs more to purchase in an item.

Reasons to use Enchanted Runes for Armor versus a Mystic Rune with Aegis;

1) Higher potential armor. If you need major protection, an Edge 5 Enchanted Rune gives as much scene-length armor as Aegis does with maximum Karma spent on the Casting Option to increase armor, or twice as much temporary armor.

2) Cannot be dispelled with the Counterweave for Level 2 spells.

Reasons to use Aegis in a Mystic Rune, versus an Enchanted Rune;

1) Scalable to the situation. As long as you have the casting option, Aegis can either be cast normally and give four points, or up to six additional Karma can be spent for a maximum of 10. Doesn't seem very cost effective, until you consider...

2) Duration. An Edge 2 Mystic Rune with Aegis provides, stock, 12 turns of Armor 4. By spending 7 Karma altogether, you can get 10 points of armor for 12 rounds, which is more cost-effective and gives more armor, albeit initially pricier, then an equivelent Enchanted Rune of Temporary Protection. With 10 points of Karma, you could keep Aegis at 10 points of armor for 30 rounds.

So, in short, Aegis provides more bang for your buck at lower levels, and can have more or less Karma spent on it, depending on effectiveness needed, but it'll never beat an Edge 5 Enchanted Rune dedicated to Armor in pure protection.

A few edges I thought of. One of them was already mentioned(Which gives the Awakened Human a base 2x Karma Pool), another allows an Awakened Human to "give" Karma, while the others are used to buy some Powers.

The idea behind the Edges for Powers is that Powers are a huge, huge, huge thing for Awakened Humans; while spells and Runes are their usual magical tricks, Powers are an extension of that. But they aren't the same grab-bag for them that they are for Scions. The vast majority of Awakened Humans won't have any Powers, period, due simply to the requirements, while many who do qualify will see Spells as a more cost-worthy and effective option. And, in a way, they're right, since Powers are, altogether, crazy-expensive. They're a huge investment of an Awakened Humans' powers and resources, and while it's repaid with an ability that can be fired off without any chance, whatsoever, of having anything go wrong, it's still something that many don't consider worth it, while others argue that having an innate ability is handy.

In short, while it's true that the vast majority of Awakened Humans will lack even the ability to gain Powers, their opinions on it are divided, but not to such an extent that it causes blood-shed. It's very much a situation where both sides look at each other and say "Yeah, you go off and waste your time on that, I'll be doing what really matters."

Rank 3 Independant Edge
Karma Extension
Requirements: Awakened Rank 3
All Awakened are most limited by their one finite resource; Karma. While human, and thus able to regain Karma at a prodigious rate, Karma still has a hard and fast limit to how much can be expended over a period of time. This Edge increases that limit.
Mechanics: The Awakened Human calculates their Karma Pool as {Earth X 2} instead of {Earth}.

Rank 2 Independant Edge
Karma Transfer
Requirements: Awakened Rank 1
One of the first things that many Awakened learn is that Karma is a force that not only comes from living things, but connects and powers them. Some learn this lesson better then others.
Awakened with this Edge are able to create literal conduits between themselves and others, transfering Karma to and from other beings. This process is tenuous, however; the being in question must be sentient, for one, and they must be completely willing, for another. Even the slightest bit of unwillingness can tangle the threads enough to make a transfer impossible. Note that it's unwillingness, not worry or any other emotion, that can disrupt a transfer; it's entirely possible for someone to be willing without wanting to.
While not ubiquious within the Awakened Society, often times deals will be paid with Karma, either a one-time payment or a promise for regular donations of it. While not a profession in and of itself, many Awakened will advertise themselves as able to perform this service, and some particularly powerful Awakened may keep retainers on hand who can double as Karma transferers, for when services require their talents.
Mechanics: The Awakened Human may, at will, transfer Karma between him and another recipient. While this is essentially limitless during narrative scenes, during action scenes, they may only transfer Karma each turn equal to half of their Earth score, rounded down, minimum 1. All Karma transferred must be able to fit into the recipients' pool, whichever way it goes. Obviously, a being with an empty Karma Pool cannot give Karma, and one with a full Karma pool cannot receive it.
Karma transfered in this manner takes more with it then just the actual energy; it also takes a bit of the donator. When someone donates Karma via this Edge, they must regain it in the slow, hard manner.

Ranked Edge
Manifestation
Requirements: Awakened Rank 2 / Special(See Below)
Manifestation is the potential to exhibit a power beyond spells amongst the Awakened. By default, they may only learn spells; however, it is possible, albeit hard, for the Awakened to gain Powers outright, and even then, they have restrictions.
Many Awakened consider Powers to be a waste of resources that could be spent better elsewhere; others consider them invaluable tools.
While the majority of Awakened with Powers only have a single one, this isn't a hard limit; an Awakened may have as many powers as he can afford to learn, but many see no real benefit to straining themselves to learn another Power.
Mechanics: This Edge must be purchased for each Power that an Awakened wishes to learn, and it allows them to only learn that Power. They must purchase the Power separately with Awakened Points.
The rank of this Edge is as high as the Awakened may go in buying the Power. Thus, someone who buys Rank 1 in Manifestation may only purchase the first rank of a Power, until they buy Rank 2 in Manifestation.
The only power which does not follow the above rules is Heightened Senses. You may purchase ranks above your rank in Manifestation, but no individual sense may be above the rank of Manifestation. Thus, you may have Manifestation Rank 1, and Heightened Senses Rank 2, as long as you only have Rank 1 Touch and Rank 1 Smell, for instance.
Powers are activated normally.
The only Powers you may not purchase with this Edge are Child of Fire, Coldspawn, and Heir of the Storm.
The requirements of this Edge increase as you increase the Rank. For Ranks 1 and 2, you must have an Awakened Rank of at least 2. For Ranks 3 and 4, your Awakened Rank must be 3. And for Rank 5, you need an Awakened Rank of 4.

I apologize, it kinda fell apart a bit there at the end. I lost my verbosity. :P

In effect, the Manifestation edge doubles the cost of powers for Awakened Humans by making them buy both the ranked edge and the ranked power.

Might it not be easier to simply say that Awakened Humans pay double cost for powers (this would alter the cost of Heightened Senses for humans) and avoid the situation where a player pays for the Manifestation edge with his hard earned xp and gets nothing tangible for it until he buys the related power at a later date.

Of course, if you point this out to players then they could just avoid the problem by buying the edge and the power together when they've saved the points for both.

I think you definitely need to point it out to the players, yes. But I think, in general and not just this specific instance, if a player is aiming to play something specific, and doesn't read up on it, they deserve what they get. It's like a player wanting spells and not realizing they have to take the Casting Edge; in short, tough shit.

In this specific instance, I see what you mean with it not being overly intuitive. However...there's a reason I did it that way. I likely will add a side-note saying "You can also just double Power Costs", but I prefer this way, simply because I think it fits better.

The purely mechanical reason I did it is simply because I think it's a better way to show the Edge/Power divide, including the difference in Experience needed. The Edge is bought with Humanity; the Power is bought with Awakened. Which is intended, based on the fluff, and I simply thought it'd be easier, in a design perspective, to make a separate Edge and make that a requirement then "Alright, all Powers cost double, but you have to pay for half with Humanity".

The fluff reason is because Manifestation is a change to the Awakened. It's very much something that almost epitomizes the major changes that their Awakened state of being can bring about.

Humans can't take Manifestation, for two major reasons; 1) They lack an Awakened Soul to cause the change, and 2) They lack an Awakened Soul to power the change.

So when an Awakened Human takes Manifestation, they've realized that while their Awakened state colors their existence, it can also change it. It's a forge where they can reshape their human existence, due, entirely, to their human adaptability and ingenuity. Which then results in them being able to enact even greater changes, as their human ingenuity and adaptability furthers their Awakened state, and so on and so forth.

If you want an analogy, think of the Awakened as realizing that they need to make their tools before doing the job.

The purchase of the Edge represents that tool. It's the equivalent of buying a hammer to do carpentry work, without knowing carpentry well enough to do it on your own.

Then, the subsequent purchase of the power is the equivalent of gaining enough knowledge to actually perform carpentry work with that hammer.

The reason Awakened need to do it like that is because, whether they know it or not, using Powers without the appropriate Manifestation edge can fuck them all up. The human body wasn't meant to have super-senses, or connect with other minds, or harden to resist damage. Oh, you wanna turn on Super-Heightened hearing without Manifestation? The few seconds your brain is receiving the signal will be pure agony, right before your ear-drums burst from trying to take in too much information. You try to use Skin of Stone without Manifestation and, looky there, your skin is now numb. And dead. And then the necrosis sets in...

The Edge fixes that. It makes it possible for you to have heightened touch without overload, and to breathe water without losing the ability to breathe air.

Yes, I could put them together, but I think that lowers the possibilities in a game of mysteries. Say that a group finds a karmic item that switches bodies, and one of them has a Power. Imagine the surprise when they go to use Nobility on someone and burst a blood vessel, or Alternate Form and rip up an arm that's trying to grow feathers. Not to mention that the edge is a degree of power. It's like buying the Casting Edge to Rank 3, and only having Casting 2 and Spells to Rank 2. Sure, it's not being used right now, but it's a way of saying "Look, I'm committed".

On top of that, and yes this's getting long

, with a Casting + Power setup, it's possible to either invest in one and then the other, or both at once. With a pure doubling of cost, there's only one massive cost to buy at once.

Igtenio wrote:The concept behind the Awakened Humans is spiritual evolution. They're a preview, of sorts, of what all human souls will eventually be. They're what humans would've been by now, if the Mythic Age hadn't ended.

Now, I tend to shy away from "evolution as gradual, eventual change into something inherently better", idealistic notion of evolution, and dislike the direction you're taking for essentially that reason - why would humanity be growing into something more? Why them, and not dogs, monkeys, snails or any other mundane creature that walks the earth? Why not the Midob, who are the only other known race of natural beings aside from humans? The only rationalisation I can see is that Humans are the only ones who create Karma so easily, but even that's a stretch (because human karma generation is as much a factor of the pace, intensity and passion of human life as it is any innate karmic nature, at least IMO).

I much prefer the "change until we find something that works" approach to evolution... for example, it's a commonly held notion that human genetic material contains the information for wings, feathers, tails, fur and all sorts of traits we don't visibly possess. So, we have within us the raw genetic data for feathers, and presumably like eye colour, hair colour and similar traits, that raw data contains information on the pattern and colour of the plumage we'd have if we had feathers. But, as we lack feathers, we don't know what that colour or pattern is...

So, IMO, Karmic evolution would follow similar lines - the traits innate to a person that define how they interact with Karma may have been changing from generation to generation in the millennia since the end of the Mythic Age... but, without the presence of sufficient ambient Karma to reveal what those changes are, nobody can tell the difference between one man's Karma and another's...

Until February 5th, 2001 in central London, that is. Suddenly, it's like growing feathers - you can see what colours you have because now the details have manifested right there for all to see... and, with natural selection blinded by the fact that Karmic traits weren't apparent or relevant in earlier generations, you'd end up with dozens of different kinds of 'Karmic Mutants' who've developed different-but-previously-dormant traits in the intervening millennia between the end of the Mythic Age and the start of the Strange Times.

But that's just me spewing ideas all over the place. Now, a few more specific comments:

Humanity's been in a funk since Karma went away, atrophying to the point that their natural Karma pools, even in a Potential Karma 5 Zone, like all of London, are only a third of what they could be in the Mythic Era.

The whole world has. Humans aren't unique in that regard. The Fae can only muster half of the Karma they could during the days of Elysium, Arcadia and Avalon (modifiers of Earthx10 in the Mythic Age and Earthx5 in the Modern Age), for example. Everyone has lost out in that regard, save for those few humans who can trace their family history back to Atlantis (who get Earthx3 Karma Pools, just like their Mythic ancestors).

in order to survive in a world of Karmic Creatures that want to eat your face, humans need to become more adept at Karma usage.

Thing is... humans survived for thousands of years during the Fourth Sun, living in a world populated by supernatural creatures, and maybe for thousands of years before that in the Third Sun before that (the GMG suggests that human civilisation in the Fourth Sun originated from the survivors of the cataclysm that ended the world of the Fourth Sun.

They're simply humans who've gotten a few steps closer to that light at the end of the tunnel, when they can effectively fight back against the forces trying to wipe them out without having to rely on machines.

But at this early stage, there aren't really any forces arrayed to annihilate mankind... indeed, most of the forces arrayed sufficiently to do anything in the first decade of the Strange Times are human in nature... even Those Who Dwell Below aren't really hostile to mankind, so much as brutally manipulating them towards some foul and distant end.

And again, in the Mythic Age, mankind survived just fine without superpowers. Human ingenuity and passion allowed to create what the supernatural creatures could not and drew the Dragons to them, as much as allies and distant protectors as anything else. The Fae embraced human culture and succumbed to human ambition. The Titans interbred with men and taught them much... now that the Strange Times are upon the world, humanity seems the only people willing, ready and able to capitalise on the changing landscape... the Dragons are scattered and struggling to remember who and what they were, the Fae are dispersed, only slowly awakening, largely unknowing of their past and as unwilling to worry about weighty matters as they always have been. And there's no sign of the Titans (though that might change as Karma reaches what was once Jotunheim)

I just want to clear something up, before I start replying to N0-1. It isn't that I think it calls for clearing up; I assume it's obvious enough that it shouldn't. I just feel I should, so there's no question, whatsoever, on it.

I'm not hearing criticism/comments/et cetera, and inventing fluff reasons to keep things as they are. I do have fluff running around in my head, which is what the mechanics are based on. It isn't a think where I hear someone disagree or question something, and I go "Wait, I need to invite an in-game reason why!".

I also have no issue changing that fluff, if it makes sense. Like I mentioned above with the Karma pools, while I think the multiplication manner makes the most sense, fluff-wise, it isn't something so vital or clean and cut that an easier method(Addition and Subtraction) can't be substituted with almost no change to the game balance or fluff.

To use an analogy, a phrase which I really should assign a hot key to, I'm giving out answers, and then giving the questions when people ask why it's that answer. And if they still don't like it, that's fine; depending on why they don't like it, I might even change it to make more sense or take advantage of a view point I hadn't thought of. Or I might keep it and just put it down to differences in taste.

Like I said, I figure that's all obvious enough. But I didn't want to come across as one of those douchebags who house rules or creates something, and then defends it with "Well, it fits the setting!". God, the lists I could draft of unholy unions defended with that... "No, sorry, Dragonball Z meeting James Bond isn't supported in either setting."

With that said...

!!!Note!!!: I've now included a handy-dandy "The Bottom Line" segment at the bottom, for those who dislike Walls of Text. What's wrong with you? :P

N0-1_H3r3 wrote:Now, I tend to shy away from "evolution as gradual, eventual change into something inherently better", idealistic notion of evolution, and dislike the direction you're taking for essentially that reason - why would humanity be growing into something more? Why them, and not dogs, monkeys, snails or any other mundane creature that walks the earth? Why not the Midob, who are the only other known race of natural beings aside from humans? The only rationalisation I can see is that Humans are the only ones who create Karma so easily, but even that's a stretch (because human karma generation is as much a factor of the pace, intensity and passion of human life as it is any innate karmic nature, at least IMO).

{Snips for Space}

For what it's worth, I think you can include a third factor; sapience. Humans are short lived, plus the pace of their existence, plus an inherent karmic potential, plus their sentience. It all kinda compounds each other and creates something that cranks out Karma like no other. It's like multipliers multiplying multipliers.

I'm not a fan of the biological ideal of evolution being a slow change into something inherently better, either. Because, frankly, I think better is too relative, and even if you use the most basic "better" in reference to it(Stronger, Faster, Smarter, Tougher, et cetera), it's still too unlikely for my tastes. I find it more likely that biological evolution is more like a slow reflex, where it sees a need in a creature and fills it over generations. Of course, in its' off-time, Evolution isn't above playing jokes. See: Platypus. :P

But I think comparing Biological Evolution and Spiritual Evolution is folly. There're entire religions built around the concept of spiritual evolution, even if it goes by other names. Buddhists believe in Reincarnation, with the soul working towards Nirvana. How many cults and religions work towards "Enlightenment"?

Even if the word "Spiritual Evolution" isn't used, the core idea, of bettering ones' own spiritual essence, certainly is. And if you take issue with the actual terminology, then I apologize, but I believe it's the best I have, for now.

Hmmm...I should look into Enlightenment. See if there aren't any words to steal from the concept of that.

The reason I believe it to be folly is because, well, first off, biological evolution can be proven to one degree or another. Changes in species happen. Even if we don't have the smoking gun of watching a fish crawl out of the sea and turn into a monkey, we have proof that, if nothing else, changes can occur in a species over time. Spiritual evolution...well, we don't even have proof a spirit/soul exists. So you're basically arguing on how big the scales of a dragon should be. Find me one, and we can talk semantics. Until then, I'll be waiting to say Holy Shit when you pull Smog out from below the mountain.

Second, assuming a spirit exists, and it's self-aware, and it's made of Karma, then you have to consider the other difference between spiritual and biological matter. That being that biological matter, frankly, isn't very good at taking orders. Evolution isn't a product of active thought; you can't have multiple people wish over generations to grow a functional tail, and it eventually happens little by little. It also isn't a matter of subconscious thought. It's something outside of the thought process.

A spirit, essentially being the thought process, I heavily doubt would be the same. While I doubt it'd be possible to spiritually wish yourself "better", I have no doubt it responds to the subconscious, which knows, often times, a whole hell of a lot more then the rest of us do.

So you have something which is, basically, unpredictably guided evolution. And I think, using that, you can fairly easily deduce why a spirit would take the directions it does, in regards to multiple abilities of the Awakened Humans.

No creation of Taint with spellcasting? Do you shit where you eat? Even if people don't consciously realize it, I have little doubt that they know, in some way, that slow spellcasting fucks up the area. It'd seem to me, first and foremost, that'd be something that a spirit moving towards Karmic Use would want to get patched up, similar to how people realized, fairly early on, that you keep the place you use for a toilet far from every place else that you live.

Rerolls with spellcasting? Better control over itself with regards to spells. You might even say that the betterment of spellcasting led to the loss of Taint, or that the better control over not creating Taint led to better spellcasting.

Temporary Karma pools? Reaching out to make up for its' meager(In general) Karma pool.

Powers? A further change, and emulating the Supernatural Creatures around them.

The point is, I think you've taken the exact term "Spiritual Evolution" a bit too far. I probably should've used Enlightenment, or something more uni-directional in regards to "Getting better". There isn't really, in fluff, any specific reason why they're becoming more; the hypothesis by many of them is that it's an evolution, or enlightenment, if you'd prefer, in response to having lived in a world so long with beings that were magically heads and shoulders above them.

The concept behind them is still, and was, Spiritual Evolution/Enlightenment. Because it's something humans souls are moving towards; given enough time, and without any more meddling, all human souls will eventually become Awakened. It isn't anything imminent, mind you; no Awakened but the most closed-minded and zealous who buys into the belief wakes up each morning and thinks, even remotely, that they'll ever see a day where they're anything but a rag-tag society living in the shadows of Mundane Humanity.

If humanity is left alone for a few thousand years, in a Karma rich environment, they'll likely have mostly made the switch. The Awakened running around now are the ones who were right on the bleeding edge, who would've Awakened sooner if Karma had been available. And there were Awakened before them; it isn't something that is, specifically, a result of Karma returning. There were Awakened in the Mythic Age, but they were stupidly rare(But not as Plot-Device rare as Phoenixes). There were Awakened when Karma left, but they tended to either not Awaken at all or only Awaken in the most Karma-infused of places that were left behind.

There're certainly more Awakened now then ever, but that's only because A) Humanity's had thousands of additional years to get there, and B) the entire world now has a Karmic potential of some sort, even if it's just "Eh, maybe", versus being a colon with the left bracket attached.

Yes, I made an emoticon joke there. :P

And if humanity hadn't been dicked with, guess what? There'd probably be more Awakened. But they were. Which retarded the entire species a bit. And is the cause, given in the fluff for Awakened Humans, for humans to have a lesser Karma Pool, and why the folks with Pureblood of Atlantis are so god damn special.

Also, if I need to say that this shit is unofficial, and that no one has to use it, I'm going to begin metaphorically hitting people. :P Yes, Awakened Human fluff has reasons for things like "Why humans generally lost their 3x pool".

The Bottom Line: So, basically, I think much of your criticism is based on me using poor word choice. Which is partially my fault; I hadn't thought of Enlightenment until this message. But, please, do spew on with ideas; I find the idea of Supernatural-Touched humans who exhibit different powers interesting, even if it isn't what I'm aiming for with Awakened Humans.

N0-1_H3r3 wrote:The whole world has. Humans aren't unique in that regard. The Fae can only muster half of the Karma they could during the days of Elysium, Arcadia and Avalon (modifiers of Earthx10 in the Mythic Age and Earthx5 in the Modern Age), for example. Everyone has lost out in that regard, save for those few humans who can trace their family history back to Atlantis (who get Earthx3 Karma Pools, just like their Mythic ancestors).

When you're humano-centric, the rest of the world doesn't matter. :P You wanna know why the Fae only have half of their Karma? It isn't because they "lost" it, like they claim; they're using it to hide Weapons of Mass Destruction. There's only one thing to do; War on Arcadia. :P

Or, to be more precise, while the entire world has been, that's not necessarily something that the entirety of Awakened Society knows or cares about; they're people, after all. While it might factor into some of their discussions, for the most part, it's "Humanity's been royally fucked."

Also, it was a way of saying "Alright, they've been spiritually diminished, and here's how badly". Sort of a "You think the spiritual decay is just the size of their Karma Pool?"

N0-1_H3r3 wrote:
Thing is... humans survived for thousands of years during the Fourth Sun, living in a world populated by supernatural creatures, and maybe for thousands of years before that in the Third Sun before that (the GMG suggests that human civilisation in the Fourth Sun originated from the survivors of the cataclysm that ended the world of the Fourth Sun.

As a species, yes. But no one's gonna claim that humans have regularly been able to trump supernatural creatures one-on-one.

It's similar to saying that many animals have had no issues surviving for thousands and millions of years. Well, that's nice. And guess what? That rabbit is still gonna be able to do jack and shit once I decide to hunt him.

Has the species been able to survive thousands of years with better creatures about? Yes. But so've deer, and we regularly kill them, too.

It's the difference between survival of a person versus survival of a species. Humans don't fare so well when it comes to the former.

N0-1_H3r3 wrote:But at this early stage, there aren't really any forces arrayed to annihilate mankind... indeed, most of the forces arrayed sufficiently to do anything in the first decade of the Strange Times are human in nature... even Those Who Dwell Below aren't really hostile to mankind, so much as brutally manipulating them towards some foul and distant end.

Which is good, because the Awakened aren't at that light, upon reaching which they'll be able to effectively fight back.

Also, I'd argue that urging someone towards something self-destructive is, in fact, hostile. It's like claiming that putting a carrot on the far side of an electric fence from a rabbit and watching it electricute itself isn't hostile.

I think it'd be more accurate to say they have no intentions of invading us in force, merely manipulating us to end ourselves for them.

N0-1_H3r3 wrote:
And again, in the Mythic Age, mankind survived just fine without superpowers. Human ingenuity and passion allowed to create what the supernatural creatures could not and drew the Dragons to them, as much as allies and distant protectors as anything else. The Fae embraced human culture and succumbed to human ambition. The Titans interbred with men and taught them much... now that the Strange Times are upon the world, humanity seems the only people willing, ready and able to capitalise on the changing landscape... the Dragons are scattered and struggling to remember who and what they were, the Fae are dispersed, only slowly awakening, largely unknowing of their past and as unwilling to worry about weighty matters as they always have been. And there's no sign of the Titans (though that might change as Karma reaches what was once Jotunheim)

Once again, mankind survived fine, yes. But not every Fae, even the ones who embraced human culture, were friendly towards humans. Not all dragons were allied with them. Not all Titans were on...ahem...friendly terms.

Pulling out that the big players weren't waging open war with their equivelent of Trees isn't the same as saying that humanity survived fine. It's like saying that a hamster that someone takes care of survives fine. It's very true that, in the best of circumstances, a hamster has no issue surviving. Now, let's let it loose in the wild, and see how it fares.

The difference between Humans and Trees, and Supernaturals and Humans, is that trees aren't sapient. Or talk. Or have a society. I'm guessing we'd have a hell of a different society if trees talked and had a society, and we'd be a lot less likely to chop them down. The sapience plus the fact that they keep us alive would likely compound each other.

In the same way, it was important to be nice to humans. Humans fucking make the very existence of Titans, and Fae, and Dragons. You can't decimate them, because they're the biggest producer of what's important.

And you know what? All that friendliness and Karma-making capability didn't help a single bit when some Dragon, or Fae, or Titan, decided it was time to hunt him down some human. Humans were royally fucked when they don't have friendship to hide behind.

Seriously, you're essentially saying that if two people are stuck on a desert island, and one of them has a gun, that the defenseless person is surviving fine, solely because the one with the gun hasn't shot him. Uh, no. Sorry, you can argue all you want, but guess what? Being bullet-proof would really help, on the off-chance that the gun-totter decided to get him some corpse.

The question isn't how well humans survive when things are going great. Fuck, everyone survives smashingly when things are going great. It's how well humans would've survived if the supernaturals got together and said "You know, humans are great and all, but maybe we could stick the little fuckers in cages and take their land for ourselves.". Or hell, even one of the major factions of Supernaturals. How well would humans have survived if Arcadia declared open season?

You can argue on how humans did this and that, but when you come right down to it, humans were the weakest link of the major Mythic World races. Their sole saving grace was, for the most part, their Karma production. Individually, they have jack and shit.

Were humans completely defenseless? No. Were the majority any match for taking on any of the major supernaturals one-on-one? Hell no.

Humans did survive without powers, yes. But they were each also horrendously weak against any of the supernaturals. I'm not suggesting that all humans get free powers to compensate; I'm saying that there's a direct reason as to why certain humans, and eventually everyone, will; to make up for the power disparity. As a reaction to striding beside magical titans.

The Bottom Line: When has "just fine" ever been good enough for people? We can do better, damn it. And powers are a way of evening the odds.

Igtenio wrote:I just want to clear something up, before I start replying to N0-1. It isn't that I think it calls for clearing up; I assume it's obvious enough that it shouldn't. I just feel I should, so there's no question, whatsoever, on it.

I'm not hearing criticism/comments/et cetera, and inventing fluff reasons to keep things as they are. I do have fluff running around in my head, which is what the mechanics are based on. It isn't a think where I hear someone disagree or question something, and I go "Wait, I need to invite an in-game reason why!".

That's fair enough - my posts are generally rambling masses of text that follow my train of thought in unknown directions, so it isn't exactly criticism, so much as the outpourings of my brain.

For what it's worth, I think you can include a third factor; sapience. Humans are short lived, plus the pace of their existence, plus an inherent karmic potential, plus their sentience. It all kinda compounds each other and creates something that cranks out Karma like no other. It's like multipliers multiplying multipliers.

Still, it doesn't really account for other natural beings of the Mythic Age - we know of at least one, in the form of the cat-like Midob, though they're a largely unexplored angle in the Mythic Age and apparently extinct in the Modern Age (Dragons reincarnate, Fae slept in an alternate realm, and... well, don't know that much about the Titans, but its likely they're immortal and in hibernation... the supernatural normally has some means to personally endure through the ages... the mundane lacks that). Still, the point remains, albeit at the fringes... why are humans the ones ascending into supernatural creatures... the notion seems unprecedented (as far as I can tell, all the cultures and species of supernatural creatures we know of started out that way, so the transition from one to the other is unprecedented).

Even if the word "Spiritual Evolution" isn't used, the core idea, of bettering ones' own spiritual essence, certainly is. And if you take issue with the actual terminology, then I apologize, but I believe it's the best I have, for now.

Hmmm...I should look into Enlightenment. See if there aren't any words to steal from the concept of that.

Ascendance is the other one that springs to mind as being a fitting term.

No creation of Taint with spellcasting? Do you shit where you eat? Even if people don't consciously realize it, I have little doubt that they know, in some way, that slow spellcasting fucks up the area. It'd seem to me, first and foremost, that'd be something that a spirit moving towards Karmic Use would want to get patched up, similar to how people realized, fairly early on, that you keep the place you use for a toilet far from every place else that you live.

This is one of those points I'm going to have to specifically disagree on - Taint, and the awakening of Those Who Dwell Below have gone by largely unnoticed (the distractions of modern live overwhelm the sensations of Karma and Taint - this is a problem even suffered by Scions, who are much less adept at spotting Karmic items than their draconic prior incarnations). There are parts of the city where you don't go alone at night, but it's always been that way... it just feels worse now. Equally, Taint isn't viewed as universally unpleasant - if it was, we'd be less likely to have taint-seekers scattered around the place.

It's like views on the decay of cadavers and the presence of insects up to the 16th and 17th centuries - as bodies decay, maggots and later fully-developed insects can be seen crawling around it. We know now that the insects feed on the dead flesh... but at the time, the belief was that the insects essentially grew spontaneously from the corpse... magic, taint and karma seems like there would be similar views attached to it by the largely unaware masses of humanity.

The connection between spellcasting and taint may be a theory held by some, but others might simply chalk it down to 'the smell of magic' or something similar, not realising that their spells shouldn't be doing that.

I agree with the idea in theory, but I don't honestly think it should be so clear-cut, given how hugely ignorant the masses of humanity are... perhaps as some kind of conscious choice, or something that can be trained by those more aware of both Karma and Taint. Dragons and Fae wield magic without producing taint because they can reweave Karma as naturally as breathing... while humanity might be making progress towards a similar state, should it be so easy right off the mark?

Temporary Karma pools? Reaching out to make up for its' meager(In general) Karma pool.

An interesting idea... humanity as Karmic Fountain (draw it in, spray it out, refill quickly and repeat)... but would it apply solely to karmic areas, or to karmic items as well... if it applies to the latter, it brings an additional layer of conflict as Enlightened Humans become competition for Scions seeking the same items.

As an aside, and I make no claims that this idea is any good, would drawing from ambient Karma in such a direct way (actively reaching out and drawing it in, rather than basking in it and letting it replenish at its own rate) drain the area's Karmic nature? Could an area be balanced, or even Tainted, by an Enlightened Human pulling too hard on an area's karma? Even Dragons and Scions have to watch out for drawing too greedily, though the effects on them are subtler and wholly internalised (the Invoking Taint rules on page 46 of the GMG).

Powers? A further change, and emulating the Supernatural Creatures around them.

No quarrel here, though between ancestry/intermingling (represented by the Brothers of Cernunnos, and the Comely and Coarse - all humans with some extra 'spark' about them), and the Assumption/Mimic the X Order spells (Assumption is one of the best spells in the game, as the effects are permanent - any power you witness and cast this spell to 'memorise' is forever available to you through the Mimic spells), binding oneself to a Tainted creature, or any number of as-yet-unrevealed methods, humans with powers isn't exactly a unique thing...

Also, if I need to say that this shit is unofficial, and that no one has to use it, I'm going to begin metaphorically hitting people. :P Yes, Awakened Human fluff has reasons for things like "Why humans generally lost their 3x pool".

That I'm interested enough to debate the finer points should suggest that I like at least the overall concept... the execution isn't quite to my tastes, but while I don't expect you to change in response to my ideas (if they don't fit your concept, they don't fit), I'm still going to throw them out there for everyone to see...

The Bottom Line: So, basically, I think much of your criticism is based on me using poor word choice. Which is partially my fault; I hadn't thought of Enlightenment until this message. But, please, do spew on with ideas; I find the idea of Supernatural-Touched humans who exhibit different powers interesting, even if it isn't what I'm aiming for with Awakened Humans.

Part of the reason I'm here is to dabble with the idea of empowering humans... though from a more meta-game perspective. After a certain point, human beings do become less and less of a threat to Scions. In-world rationales for enhanced, evolved, enlightened or simply wierd humans who've somehow become something more (and possibly less) than human are always interesting in that regard...

Seriously, you're essentially saying that if two people are stuck on a desert island, and one of them has a gun, that the defenseless person is surviving fine, solely because the one with the gun hasn't shot him. Uh, no. Sorry, you can argue all you want, but guess what? Being bullet-proof would really help, on the off-chance that the gun-totter decided to get him some corpse.

I don't think I'm saying that at all. Humanity thrived during the Fourth Sun. It made Empires that spanned the world (the Atlantean empire, at its peak, reached Tizca, which seems likely to be equivalent to modern Central America; the Kurgan roamed and settled the world from the borders of Xia to what was once Arcadia and Tethys, and were directly responsible for sundering Elysium into the kingdoms of Avalon and Arcadia, diminishing the Fae and leading to the Exile of the Summer Court). Human civilisation didn't just survive those times, it grew across the world and dominated it in a way that all but eclipsed the major supernatural races.

That's a hell of a lot more than 'just fine', to be quite honest - a bad choice of phrase on my part.

N0-1_H3r3 wrote:
That's fair enough - my posts are generally rambling masses of text that follow my train of thought in unknown directions, so it isn't exactly criticism, so much as the outpourings of my brain.

That wasn't specifically aimed at you, as much as a generalities. I wouldn't want anyone assuming, since I've dealt with folks like that before.

I'm still getting the bits out of my car bumper. :P

Plus, I'm the same way. I sometimes find myself throwing out ideas and theories that accidentally get taken as fact by other. Apparently my thought process operates on Quantum Mechanics, since it refuses to work unless someone sees it. :P

N0-1_H3r3 wrote:
Still, it doesn't really account for other natural beings of the Mythic Age - we know of at least one, in the form of the cat-like Midob, though they're a largely unexplored angle in the Mythic Age and apparently extinct in the Modern Age (Dragons reincarnate, Fae slept in an alternate realm, and... well, don't know that much about the Titans, but its likely they're immortal and in hibernation... the supernatural normally has some means to personally endure through the ages... the mundane lacks that). Still, the point remains, albeit at the fringes... why are humans the ones ascending into supernatural creatures... the notion seems unprecedented (as far as I can tell, all the cultures and species of supernatural creatures we know of started out that way, so the transition from one to the other is unprecedented).

*Shrugs*

Why humans? Hell, who knows. I know I made arguments in one of the last posts, but those were more or less hypotheticals. Reasoning I'd give, if someone said "Hey, why humans?", like you did.

Enlightened Humans don't even know why.

As to why, if you want my reasoning behind it, I'd say it's because of that long existence. Humans have very likely been around since, at bare minimum, the last age. I see no reason to not assume that humans are kinda like a cross between cockroaches and trees, where they perform a vital function(Karma Creation), while being damn nigh unkillable as a species. It'd seem to me, with that longevity as a species, all things are less of a matter of If and more of When. After all, if a species survives for an infinite period of time, and evolution is in play, all forms for that species are not just possible, but guaranteed to occur at some point.

While I'm not saying that humans are some sort of Forever Species, I do think that being a species which was sentient and, for lack of a better word, "proper"(Not bestial) before the coming of the current Sun would put them as pretty damn long-lived. Humans have been around longer then dragons, at that rate, if I recall correctly. And being a natural, adaptable species, it's hard to say what might occur in such long periods of time. Hell, the turning of the last Sun into the current one might've been, in a sense, childhoods' end for humanity.

Other ideas? Humanity was a supernatural species that slowly became mundane and forged their Karma usage into creating more Karma. Humanity is a gray-goo-like construct made to flood the world with Karma and survive at all costs. Humanity was created by a Deity and told to be fruitful, which means to not only have children, but live life and fill the world with Karma. Humanity are survivors of Those Who Dwell Below who, instead of losing all form, gained solid form and continued living above ground. Humanity are, as a whole, aliens from some other Planet/Dimension/EtCetera which are here to cultivate Karma to later be harvested by the rest of their race. Humanity was the winning weapon in a primordial battle between Taint and Karma for the fabric of the universe. Humanity are a personification of the struggle between Karma and Taint.

N0-1_H3r3 wrote:
Ascendance is the other one that springs to mind as being a fitting term.

I'm missing all the good ones. :P

I'm thinking about Enlightened Humans, simply because Ascension and Awakened make me think of Mage, and they're enlightened to (some of) the mysteries of Karma.

I love Mage. But not that much. :P

N0-1_H3r3 wrote:
This is one of those points I'm going to have to specifically disagree on - Taint, and the awakening of Those Who Dwell Below have gone by largely unnoticed (the distractions of modern live overwhelm the sensations of Karma and Taint - this is a problem even suffered by Scions, who are much less adept at spotting Karmic items than their draconic prior incarnations). There are parts of the city where you don't go alone at night, but it's always been that way... it just feels worse now. Equally, Taint isn't viewed as universally unpleasant - if it was, we'd be less likely to have taint-seekers scattered around the place.

{Snip}

I agree with the idea in theory, but I don't honestly think it should be so clear-cut, given how hugely ignorant the masses of humanity are... perhaps as some kind of conscious choice, or something that can be trained by those more aware of both Karma and Taint. Dragons and Fae wield magic without producing taint because they can reweave Karma as naturally as breathing... while humanity might be making progress towards a similar state, should it be so easy right off the mark?

I'm certainly not against a conscious effort to avoid Taint in humans. I brought up something similar a while back, on the old board, which basically boiled down to "Huh, I wonder if humans could be taught by Supernaturals or at least Scions to not cause Taint with spellcasting". Personally, I'd make it a Level 5 Independent Edge, with requirements of certain ranks in Casting(Skill and Edge), and a supernatural mentor.

With Enlightened Humans, though, yeah, I do. To me, the lack of taint would be more of a symptom of their condition then an actual benefit. While Scions and Supernaturals do it naturally, due to their ease in it, Enlightened Humans would do it reflectively, without even really noticing, due to their new nature. It isn't so much a new ease in how to weave Karma, as much as it would be "Alright, I have to perform this spell...wait, this's wrong somehow, oh, now it's right, okay and do this...no, no, too rough, have to tone it down...wow, it worked and it shouldn't."

Essentially, it's a new awareness, at an instinctual level, of how Karma should and shouldn't be used. It's like someone with OCD needing to touch every tree they walk by; the touching isn't a cause, it's a symptom. It's also a reflective symptom; the Enlightened Human doesn't necessarily realize he's correcting himself, but it still happens.

N0-1_H3r3 wrote:
An interesting idea... humanity as Karmic Fountain (draw it in, spray it out, refill quickly and repeat)... but would it apply solely to karmic areas, or to karmic items as well... if it applies to the latter, it brings an additional layer of conflict as Enlightened Humans become competition for Scions seeking the same items.

As an aside, and I make no claims that this idea is any good, would drawing from ambient Karma in such a direct way (actively reaching out and drawing it in, rather than basking in it and letting it replenish at its own rate) drain the area's Karmic nature? Could an area be balanced, or even Tainted, by an Enlightened Human pulling too hard on an area's karma? Even Dragons and Scions have to watch out for drawing too greedily, though the effects on them are subtler and wholly internalised (the Invoking Taint rules on page 46 of the GMG).

Enlightened Humans, by default, can draw Karma from Karmic Items. They can't use the functions of them, but they can take the Karma. I'm thinking of making a Level 2 or 3 edge that lets an Enlightened Human utilize special aspects of a Karmic Item as well.

By default, Enlightened Humans don't damage a Karmic Area from the automatic increase in their Karma Pool. It's available to them, they use it, they lose the ability to pull it as they use it, et cetera. It isn't really dangerous.

However, Enlightened Humans can also over-draw on an area, which gives them a short-term benefit, but mangles the local Karma.

The gist, mechanically, is that an Enlightened Human can refill his Karma Pool by his Earth score, for every Rank he lowers the Area. So if someone is in a Karma Rank 4 Area, and they need some extra Karma, they can permanently make it a Karma Rank 3 Area. The really bad part is that this only affects the Enlightened Humans' pool if he can draw on the entire area. So if he's Awakened Rank 2, and the area is Karma 5, he'll have a total Karma Pool of Earth x 3. When he lowers the Karma Rank of the area, the Area becomes Karma 4, but he has {Earth} more Karma and his maximum is still at Earth x 3.

However, this's considered wrong by both Enlightened Human society as a whole and while doing it. Even while doing it, the Enlightened Human feels wrong performing it, and Enlightened Human society as a whole considers permanently stealing Karma from an area to be the equivalent of leaving a giant dump in public. While it isn't something they kill for right off the bat, since everyone, at some point either doesn't know better or gets into a predicament where it's that or death, it's something heavily, heavily frowned on, and serial usage of it inevitably leads to someone who is fond of that area tracking you down and having words. The kind that involve fists.

However, Enlightened Humans cannot draw on an area so much they create Taint. At most, they render an area Balanced and can't draw on it at all. Enlightened Humans who want to spread Taint "safely", however(and they do exist), often assemble cults of regular humans with the promise of magic. It's easy for them to show their abilities, being Enlightened and therefore it being much easier for them to cast spells, so they often get a fair number(2-20, usually) of humans interested in doing the same.

When they want to spread Taint, they basically just say "For now, only perform magic here. And do it slowly. Not fast.". This's expedited if the area is Karma positive, since it's stupidly easy for the Enlightened Human to blow the Karma rating away and let them start in a balanced area.

They can also create Taint, albeit dangerously, by channeling Overkill Successes into Taint production. This, like drawing on a Karma Area, is seen as stupidly wrong, both while being done and by others, but it's also seen as something that was either done out of ignorance or for a life-or-death reason. It's also either stupidly long to get rid of it safely, or stupidly dangerous to get rid of quickly. Each Overkill Success channeled this way creates 1 point of Taint in the Enlightened Human.

I don't have concrete mechanics for this yet, so I'm using the math more to show the general process