Looky what I found!

I was browsing about the internet when I stumbled upon this page:

http://www.scribd.com/people/documents/1236841/folder/21056

Someone has gathered some WFRP stuff up for grabs. Theres much material from the old BI site, and many fan sites. The downside is that you'll have to sign up to download them, so I haven't actually tested if the linkz work...

you can get the maps just by viewing the images

http://static.scribd.com/profiles/images/kp0osxzvazta8-full.jpg

nice maps

I wonder if the creator of the site has the right to publish all of that material. And even if he has, I am a bit annoyed that there is no mention of the creators of it all. Not so worried about the LF (assuming that they are published in one piece); we did grant everyone the right to publish the complete issues on their site, and we made sure that the writers of the articles, and the other people who worked on the issues, were mentioned. But I see material by people like Dave Graffam, Andreas Blicher (the wonderful maps), Dave Allen, and others, without a mention of their name.

It pisses me off a bit that people spend a lot of time to create high quality fanwork, and then find their work getting distributed, possibly without their consent, and without them getting the credit for what they have done.

I must admit, there are several .pdfs on my hard-drive who unfortunately I have no idea who created them as they did not put there name on the .pdf itself.

(Having said that, at least one of them is full of copyright violations which probably explains the lack of attribution.)

Ah, this is the internet, guys.............. Get over it.

Nothing we can do about it.

Isn't this just a backup copy of stuff from BI's web site while FFG gets its act together? I don't see the fuss about making the errata available, perhaps I missed something?

CapnZapp wrote:Isn't this just a backup copy of stuff from BI's web site while FFG gets its act together?

Some of the stuff, for example the German material and Maps where never on the BI website as far as I know.

Looking at it, its a pretty weird mix. I am certainly not sure everything from the BI site is even up there.

I have alot more adventures in my collection from BI so you are liekly right in that Jadrax

Drakar wrote:Ah, this is the internet, guys.............. Get over it.

Nothing we can do about it.

Nothing one can do about it? Do you really think so?

And don't you think that this is potentially damaging to the hobby? I could imagine that fans are less eager to share stuff they've created if that gets spread without proper attribution. Those fans don't get any money or other material compensation for their efforts, all they do get is recognition of fellow fans for a job well done. And that seems to be taken away from them as well.

You say: "Get over it - I don't care who created all this nifty stuff." A fan who is working on cool stuff may answer: "Oh, if that's how you think about it, fine. But why would I share my stuff with you, then? Go write your own material."

I think that one of the things that make WFRP great is the active fan community. And I think that a lack of recognition for what fans are doing is damaging to that community, and ultimately to the game as well.

CapnZapp wrote:Isn't this just a backup copy of stuff from BI's web site while FFG gets its act together? I don't see the fuss about making the errata available, perhaps I missed something?

Errata is one thing - those are documents that are needed, an extension of the books. But even errata are copyrighted. Scenarios are much less essential. Andreas' maps and the LF have never been hosted on BI's site, as far as I know, and they can still be downloaded from where they have been originally published. The site could just have linked to those original sites instead. That would have ensured that the user has access to updated files, new maps, support for articles, and so on.

Whymme wrote:I wonder if the creator of the site has the right to publish all of that material.

No.

From what I saw from the hosting site, they agree to host original material and as we all know, this Agatha hasn't originally done any of it. Whether any of us will inform the host is another matter entirely. I found that site as I was looking if any material I have worked on appears anywhere on the net I'm not aware of, and I happened to found some. I won't still do a bloody thing about it. I gave my materials for free to GW/BI, and it's their job to defend it if they'll see it fit to do so.

But technically, any of us could inform the host site, and they should take the files down.

(IMHO, and all that)

(PS: Whymme, have you checked your mailbox (not PM) recently?)

What I think is Drakar's point is this: anyone that publishes stuff on the internet is incredibly naive if he honestly believes it won't spread around, beyond those sites the author has direct knowledge of.

1) Besides, it's not as if this uploader claims to be the author of those documents.
2) Besides, it's not as if these documents weren't free all along.

Being uploaded to various file sharing hubs is not something I would get mad about. Primarily because there is absolutely nothing you could do about it (even if you get scribd to take down the material, it will just pop up elsewhere).

Instead, be happy your stuff is available from yet another source! Really, the only constructive stance here is to be flattered your stuff is being copied about!

Not to mention that all current WFRP/DH material is available for download. Someone I know did just that, including Thousand Thrones, which as I understand it, was available 3 days after it was released.

One of the WFRP 'packages' (just short of gig) that he 'found' had all 4 of the LF's bundled in with it. I guess that could be seen as a form of flattery.

He 'found' this material in Denmark. Now I don't know if this is true, but I've been told by numerous people that all these 'free' books are available from European sites, particularly Denmark, because it's not illegal to post books in their entirety there.

If that's true, it's a shame.

Whymme wrote:

Drakar wrote:Ah, this is the internet, guys.............. Get over it.

Nothing we can do about it.

Nothing one can do about it? Do you really think so?

And don't you think that this is potentially damaging to the hobby? I could imagine that fans are less eager to share stuff they've created if that gets spread without proper attribution. Those fans don't get any money or other material compensation for their efforts, all they do get is recognition of fellow fans for a job well done. And that seems to be taken away from them as well.

If I can write something and have 10 people use it, I'm happy. Recognition over the internet is nice, but if anyone is really making fan content so that they can get their name spread - they need to think of something else to do. They can do charity work or something. Making fan content is not the way to fame.

CapnZapp wrote:Being uploaded to various file sharing hubs is not something I would get mad about.

If I would be uploaded to a file sharing hub, I would get plenty mad indeed!

For me, it depends. If it's something I'd designed for myself and people I've specifically chosen to share it with, then I'd be angry if one of them uploaded it onto the internet since the choice had been taken away from me. If I'd made it publicly available, then I don't see the issue. If I was so concerned with credit, I'd make sure that was included in the document.

Zap and Dug got my point.
Its the internet...

Movies are here before they get to the cinemas.
You can have any music in the world for freee.
You can see Paris Hilton's shaved pussy.
Anything you want.

It-can't-be-controlled! That is its best and its worse at the same time.

(Unless you are in china. They spend Billions controlling the internet there.)

Drakar wrote:.
You can see Paris Hilton's shaved pussy.
Anything you want.

Seems to be paradox there...

Seriously, of course you can do something about the internet, it's just that not enough people care enough to do anything. It was created by people, it can be controlled, or in the extreme case stopped(pull the plug) by people.

But nothing is done - I guess the reasoning being that most illegal copies / pirated goods are used by people who couldn't afford the real thing anyways.

I dunno, I use the Internet every day and need it for my work and everything, but I can't help thinking that we'd be better off without it, at least in its current form. There's beginning to be so much crap there, that it might just outweight the good sides of it?

I really disagree.
Even with all the crap on line, I think internet is the ultimate tool for common people's manifestation.

This is freedom of speech as good as it can be - for ANYONE.

Think back on the old days. All the lack of common individual's possibility to manifest his thoughts and ideas!

All the information and enlightment! Knowledge is availeable to EVERYONE, EVERYWHERE!(but China)

Shit, I wouldn't know Warhammer even had a second edition. There is SO much I wouldn't know.

I have people from all around the world on my skype and MSN!

So... despite all the shit on the web, Internet is one of the best things that ever happened to mankind. Saying that we would be better off without it, is.... almost heretical, In my opinnion.

Go on, call me one. You wouldn't be the first.

The trouble with all freedom is that along should come responsibility and accountability. The way Internet is, nobody is responsible for their freedom, because the Internet is anonymous.

Drakar wrote:I
Think back on the old days. All the lack of common individual's possibility to manifest his thoughts and ideas!

Yeah, but ... well, this case is not about someone manifesting his thoughts and ideas. It is someone using other peoples thoughts and ideas.

So this is not a free speech issue at all.

As to why people could get pissed about it:

I publish stuff on the internet to get people to go to my website. Any other outlet makes my website less visited, and it lowers my incentive to continue publishing. It's not about money (the ads on my site has netted 10 dollars in the two years I've been blogging).

I'm sure as hell not losing any sleep over it, but I also think that it is very resonable to attribute the creators like Whymme is saying. It costs nothing, and it creates so much goodwil, compared to just grabbing everything a flinging it on a web site unattributed.

/M

Of course it's not "free speech". It is, technically, a crime.

Just one where it isn't exactly constructive, to say the least, to get upset.

The best author attribution system is the most convenient for everyone involved. Just write your name inside the document. This forces anyone intent to pass along your work as their own (a far more serious and uncommon occurrence) to do actual work (ripping the text).

You'd be surprised at how effective this is...

Nonono, you got me wrong, Magnus.

My reply was about Ron's statement that we would be better off without Internet.

And I also said "Despise all the crap", meaning what happened in this issue, for example.

And yes, I agree, Ron, responsibility and accountability are fundamental, but that's better come from our self management, otherwise, someone will have to control the internet, and then it loses all the freedon and stuff.

Also, liking or not, Internet is just a child. With time, things will, inevitably get more organized.

CapnZapp wrote:Of course it's not "free speech". It is, technically, a crime.

Just one where it isn't exactly constructive, to say the least, to get upset.

The best author attribution system is the most convenient for everyone involved. Just write your name inside the document. This forces anyone intent to pass along your work as their own (a far more serious and uncommon occurrence) to do actual work (ripping the text).

You'd be surprised at how effective this is...

AHahhahahah I have josef's critical charts and complete rules for hurting, and there is a cover we made that says: "The Tome of Josef, The Crazy Physician"

Also, Jadrax 1000 Islas is highly regarded in our group.

CapnZapp wrote:This forces anyone intent to pass along your work as their own (a far more serious and uncommon occurrence)

Heh, that has happened to me. Some punk took the text of an adventure I wrote, changed the placenames and NPC names, and called it his own creation.

Actually, I've been the "victim" of all of the IP crimes mentioned in this thread.

And based on those experiences, I don't really feel flattered when people pirate my stuff. I don't really feel anything, it's just like rain, it happens.

/M