The most useless/unplayable investigator

Hmmm... First of all, fighting Hastur really isn't that hard, you just need to make sure to be ontop of gates and to slay monsters well. Basically all you want to do (if you plan to fight him). Is run into gates immediately (before they surge) and close them (don't seal). Having physical resistance won't save his ass if his combat modifier is between negative zero and negative three ;') (get a few magical weapons or blessings, and allies, and you'll really kick his ass). Disclaimer: I haven't played him with epic battle cards yet. Try to get one of those cancel-a-turn cards, just in case ;'D

Ah Tsathoggua. I used to have *alot* of trouble with him. Then I realized if I just played a quick game against him I could usually take him out. I basically buy common items on the first turn, and by the second turn I scatter characters around to collect clue tokens. Yeah, it's annoying to not be able to trade for allies, but his doom track *is* 13 ::shrug:: Just seal a couple gates then camp at the newspaper for cash and clue tokens then shop for unique items.

As I said before, I don't use custom decks, so what I usually do is I play with all the expansions. Sometimes I cull the expansions to just one if I want to for thematic reasons, or because I think the game will be more pointed (once I cut King in Yellow down to only base set and expansion cards, I can't remember if I kept in the item and skill cards from other expansions, I think I did, they were two of the toughest games I played, but I enjoyed them, I had to really sweat for those wins).

Hmmm.... With dilluted decks, I don't really think the heralds are that difficult, although I can see why it would be problematic with 2 investigators (you don't have enough players to go monsterfighting and keep the terror track under control).

*gasp* and Jedit, I know I've been hyping Luke ;'D but to say that he's nearly as good as Mandy is blasphemy! Ia Ia Mandy Phtagn!

I agree that Hastur is easy, my post didn't mean to imply otherwise (fluke as in: nothing bad at all happened that game and we easiyl sealed him away).

As for Tsathoggua, we tried something similar last time, but ended up with the King in yellow herald and that guy that ups the number of successes needed to remove a doom token (although we had too few gate trophies to really survive all that long anyway). We're going to try that again though, minus the clue collecting part (i.e. get weapons and try to get as many tokens as possible and try to battle him). I personally think it'll fail though, but we haven't tried it 100% yet. If we draw characters with which such a plan is improbable though (low fight scores) then we'll try sealing again.

@Jedit
I also am a fan of Luke sailing to lost lands at the helm of the white ship.

Wait. What? You're going to try and battle him? I didn't advise that O_o

Ah right you went for a seal. Sorry. But anyway, we're gonna try to battle him next time he comes up and we get high fight value characters (fat chance).

*edit*
Since he has no resistances, if one could just bring high yield weapons into the fray...well it seems exceedingly unlikely mathematically. At most you'll be living 4 turns. Even if we had 15 dice, that'd be 20 successes before we croak, only enough to remove 10 tokens (less likely to happen with epic battle cards). Still, it'd feel great to pummel the guy.
I find it somewhat hilarious that both him and Atlach-Nacha are the hardest star players of their respective expansion (they are both Clark Ashton Smith deities). Guess Innsmouth will include Ubbo-Sathla and he'll be hell to fight for us

Hi Guys,

Slightly OT here, but not really waranting a new thread: I took a look through the KP investigators for the first time last night and a couple of things struck me.

Everyone has been saying how great Daisy is, and I'd have to say she looks seriously overpowered. IMHO She should only have one of her special abilities either (i) no SAN loss from tomes [ in which case keep the Livre d'Ivon in starting equipment]; or (ii) keep the lowered SAN loss from spell casting [lose L d'I from starting equip]. I won't be changing her via houserules, but I'd have rather seen her with just one of these options.

Lola (that is the actress' name, right?) has the worst ability of any investigator IMHO. Even if she can pick from the bottom of the skills deck before discarding, her discard then goes to the bottom for next turn unless a sperate pile is kept. Would it have been overpowered to allow her to flip over the top skill card each turn and allow her a temporary access to that skill for the current turn? Difficult to justify thematically (Method Acting perhaps? Yes maybe that would do it if you kept your tongue in cheek).

Whilst I'm primarily intersted in fun characters to play, the abilities of these two investigators bugged me for being on the one hand too good, and on the other too poor.

Cheers - Chris

*rats, I just saw the new KH investigator thread, I'm going to repost over there. Sorry about the double post*

Jedit wrote:
Also, Luke is SFAIAA the only investigator who can win a solo game on turn 1.

... if he happens to draw Find Gate, you mean? He starts the game delayed, which I think means he can't cast it. I don't have the card with me at the moment, though (so often the way)

Or is there deeper magic at work here, perhaps requiring a certain other world encounter?

I'm desperately searching for reasons for Luke to be good as he's in my league team ;^) The idea was that with an early gate trophy he'd be Rex's best friend, but in practice against Yig he kept being uselessly trapped behind cultists. We're seriously considering letting him get devoured unless he pulls his socks up...

EDIT: For the record, the full team is Luke, Rex, Joe, Lily, and Mandy. It is not bad.

Mr Mauve wrote:

Jedit wrote:
Also, Luke is SFAIAA the only investigator who can win a solo game on turn 1.

... if he happens to draw Find Gate, you mean? He starts the game delayed, which I think means he can't cast it.

Nothing that I've seen suggests it. A delayed Investigator receives no Movement points, and if they're in another world they don't move to the next zone/Arkham, but there's nothing to say they can't take an action in the phase that doesn't involve movement (e.g. trading with another Investigator).

I think what he meant was that potentially he could get lucky and no further gates would open during the turns he spends in the outer worlds before he can seal. Pretty unlikely though.

Victimizer wrote:I think what he meant was that potentially he could get lucky and no further gates would open during the turns he spends in the outer worlds before he can seal. Pretty unlikely though.

Just for fun, with the base set, I believe that the probability of getting the same gate location once in a row is 100%, twice in a row is 12%, and three times in a row is 1.6%.

My personal experience (haven't played with everyone)

The worst:

Any "shopper" character. What fun is it to spend the whole game picking through the item deck to give items to players with better investigators?

Any character with only 3 sanity. The best fighter in the world is useless if you go insane before you get into combat. Sanity is lost at a MUCH higher rate than stamina.

Dexter Drake- A spell special ability for a character not at all equipped to be a spellcaster. His one sole use is gathering spells to hand off to better spell characters like the professor or psychologist (who doesn't start out with any spells, yet the scientist starts with two???). Weak and boring.

Montery Jack- A character that'll go insane in any given fight. How is having 7 stamina supposed to balance this out? Even if he doesn't go insane he only starts with +4 worth of weapons. Hardly a powerhouse. Get ready for an exciting game of "elder sign picker".

The soldier- Again, it doesn't matter how awesome your combat is if you go insane before the fight even starts. You are useful against high toughness monsters without a horror check or any kind of physical resistance, which is pretty much zero. Pretty useless special ability. I get delayed MAYBE once every other (or third) game.

Trust fund chick- Spend your entire game shopping for other players, or handing your money to them. And honestly, for money I'd rather just take the athelete (Rita?) starts out with a retainer. More cash in the short term early on which is when you'll need it.

The doctor- The ratio of times I'd need sanity restored instead of stamina is about 10 to 1.

The nun- "Well her stats and items are crap but she does start out with a bl-, oops my blessing just ran out."

GrooveChamp wrote:Trust fund chick- Spend your entire game shopping for other players, or handing your money to them. And honestly, for money I'd rather just take the athelete (Rita?) starts out with a retainer. More cash in the short term early on which is when you'll need it.

So ... Rita starting with $4 and gaining $2 a tu - oops, her retainer just ran out - gives her more short-term cash than Jenny's starting $10 and $1 a turn, even though Rita's funds won't overtake Jenny's until turn 7 of what is normally a 14-16 turn game?

I'd go so far as to say that not only have you not mastered the strategies of this game, you also haven't mastered arithmetic to the standards of the fifth grade. This is not necessarily a shameful thing, but you shouldn't be basing your arguments on maths if you know you're number-blind.

The soldier- Again, it doesn't matter how awesome your combat is if you go insane before the fight even starts. You are useful against high toughness monsters without a horror check or any kind of physical resistance, which is pretty much zero. Pretty useless special ability. I get delayed MAYBE once every other (or third) game.

Mark Kerrigan hangs around in dark places looking for trouble. His weapons are so good that he can keep himself on 3 Fight 3 Will in most circumstances, which is enough to pass a good number of horror checks. If you can get a gate to open under him he only has to have one OWE before he can close it, he's immune to the "stay here next turn" encounters and if he gets LITAS it only costs him one turn instead of two. He's also a very good choice for keeping Rifts under control at Kingsport, as he has a fair balance of stats and there's a lot of encounters there that delay you (particularly at 7th House on the Left).

Jedit wrote:

GrooveChamp wrote:Trust fund chick- Spend your entire game shopping for other players, or handing your money to them. And honestly, for money I'd rather just take the athelete (Rita?) starts out with a retainer. More cash in the short term early on which is when you'll need it.

So ... Rita starting with $4 and gaining $2 a tu - oops, her retainer just ran out - gives her more short-term cash than Jenny's starting $10 and $1 a turn, even though Rita's funds won't overtake Jenny's until turn 7 of what is normally a 14-16 turn game?

I'd go so far as to say that not only have you not mastered the strategies of this game, you also haven't mastered arithmetic to the standards of the fifth grade. This is not necessarily a shameful thing, but you shouldn't be basing your arguments on maths if you know you're number-blind.

Chill out, math crusader. I forgot Rita only started with $4, but I'd still take her over Jenny in a heartbeat. Her money making is nearly on par with Jenny (how much more shopping do you have left to do after turn 6?) and she's useful in other areas to boot whereas money is pretty much Jenny's whole thing.

The soldier- Again, it doesn't matter how awesome your combat is if you go insane before the fight even starts. You are useful against high toughness monsters without a horror check or any kind of physical resistance, which is pretty much zero. Pretty useless special ability. I get delayed MAYBE once every other (or third) game.

Mark Kerrigan hangs around in dark places looking for trouble. His weapons are so good that he can keep himself on 3 Fight 3 Will in most circumstances, which is enough to pass a good number of horror checks.

A good number of +0 horror checks anyways. The thing about the soldier is if you have to kill a monster that's so tough you NEED the flamethrower to kill it, chances are it has a killer horror check and sanity damage. There are plenty of monsters that inflict 3 sanity loss, and even if they only take off 1 or 2 that means he has to go running back to the asylum after every fight. Again, he's only useful against monsters with minimal horror AND aren't immune/resistant to physical weapons, and most of the monsters that fit that description can easily be dispatched by nearly any other investigator.

If you can get a gate to open under him he only has to have one OWE before he can close it

That's a big if.

I completely agree, Mark Harrigan is totally overrated, I would prefer to draw either Rita, or Wilson (shotgun/motorcycle man), or Pete, or Bob. Bleh. I really dislike Mark. At first I thought he was cool because, well, he's a soldier, and he has a *flamethrower* but then through bitter experience I learned that he's a tool.

GrooveChamp wrote: (how much more shopping do you have left to do after turn 6?)

Exactly. So why are you arguing that Rita is better when she has less money to spend when you need to spend it?

and she's useful in other areas to boot whereas money is pretty much Jenny's whole thing.

Jenny's "whole thing" is that she can use her money to become very good at anything. You can choose to round her out by buying spells or weapons to complement her starting gear, or you can make her very good at one thing. She's one of the few investigators who can easily be made capable of defeating both Phys Immune and Magic Immune monsters, and she has the high SAN needed for the horror checks.

Rita has slightly higher Fight, but it doesn't matter as her Will sucks for horror checks and she only has 4 SAN. Her Lore/Luck track is the worst possible, so she's at a big disadvantage in OWEs and she can't cast spells. The only thing she's better at than Jenny is running - but when you can't consistently close gates, you can't fight and you can't shop there's nowhere to go except Kingsport - where you never need a speed greater than 3.

avi_dreader wrote:I completely agree, Mark Harrigan is totally overrated, I would prefer to draw either Rita, or Wilson (shotgun/motorcycle man), or Pete, or Bob. Bleh. I really dislike Mark. At first I thought he was cool because, well, he's a soldier, and he has a *flamethrower* but then through bitter experience I learned that he's a tool.

Yeah. The reason I'd ALWAYS take more sanity over more stamina (I'd take an 8 sanity 2 stamina character if I could) is, in my experience, it's usually better to just say "screw the horror check" and bump your fight all the way up. I'd rather automatically lose the horror check then be almost guaranteed to win the combat check than have a decent chance at losing both. Just eat the sanity loss and move on.

That's why I consider the psychologist to be one of the most useful investigators in the game. Bump her fight up, give her a good weapon/spell, and she's nearly unstoppable. Which would you rather have, the soldier at 3 fight 3 will who still might fail his horror check and go insane, or the psychologist at 3 fight 0 will (4/0?) who'll fail the horror check but recover it in 1-3 turns?

GrooveChamp wrote:

avi_dreader wrote:I completely agree, Mark Harrigan is totally overrated, I would prefer to draw either Rita, or Wilson (shotgun/motorcycle man), or Pete, or Bob. Bleh. I really dislike Mark. At first I thought he was cool because, well, he's a soldier, and he has a *flamethrower* but then through bitter experience I learned that he's a tool.

Yeah. The reason I'd ALWAYS take more sanity over more stamina (I'd take an 8 sanity 2 stamina character if I could) is, in my experience, it's usually better to just say "screw the horror check" and bump your fight all the way up. I'd rather automatically lose the horror check then be almost guaranteed to win the combat check than have a decent chance at losing both. Just eat the sanity loss and move on.

That's why I consider the psychologist to be one of the most useful investigators in the game. Bump her fight up, give her a good weapon/spell, and she's nearly unstoppable. Which would you rather have, the soldier at 3 fight 3 will who still might fail his horror check and go insane, or the psychologist at 3 fight 0 will (4/0?) who'll fail the horror check but recover it in 1-3 turns?

I'd rather have Joe, who'd turn his Fight up to 11 and clue the horror check if he really wanted to... but I take the point, and I'm a really big fan of Dana myself. Her Fight bar is bigger than you think - she's 4/1. In a perfect world, one of those points might shunt across to her top Speed, but she's still wonderful, especially if she can get herself a motorbike (or a Colt).

I've also taken the liberty of signing avi_dreader up to my Save Rita campaign for the Great Ritual thread ;^)

Further thread derailment... I'd also prefer Lily with her sanity initially at 4, and ratchet that up to 7 over the next few turns. Sorry. I get very easily distracted on Monday mornings 8^/

Mr Mauve wrote:I'd rather have Joe, who'd turn his Fight up to 11 and clue the horror check if he really wanted to... but I take the point, and I'm a really big fan of Dana myself. Her Fight bar is bigger than you think - she's 4/1. In a perfect world, one of those points might shunt across to her top Speed, but she's still wonderful, especially if she can get herself a motorbike (or a Colt).

I know maybe 4 investigators by name. What profession are they (the nun, the soldier, etc) ?

Ashcan Pete, the Drifter
Amanda Sharpe, the Student
Bob Jenkins, the Salesman
Carolyn Fern, the Psychologist
Charlie Kane, the Politician
Daisy Walker, the Librarian
Darrell Simmons, the Photographer
Dexter Drake, the Magician
Diane Stanley, the Redeemed Cultist
Gloria Goldberg, the Author
Harvey Walters, the Professor
Jacqueline Fine, the Psychic
Jenny Barnes, the Dilettante
Jim Culver, the Musician
Joe Diamond, the Private Investigator
Kate Winthrop, the Scientist
Leo Anderson, the Expedition Leader
Lily Chen, the Martial Artist
Lola Hayes, the Actress
Luke Robinson, the Dreamer
Mandy Thompson, the Researcher
Marie Lambeau, the Entertainer
Mark Harrigan, the Soldier
Michael McGlen, the Gangster
Monterey Jack, the Archaeologist
Rex Murphy, the Reporter
Rita Young, the Athlete
Sister Mary, the Nun
Tony Morgan, the Bounty Hunter
Vincent Lee, the Physician
Wendy Adams, the Urchin
Wilson Richards, the Handyman

Read. Memorize. Eat.

GrooveChamp wrote:

Mr Mauve wrote:I'd rather have Joe, who'd turn his Fight up to 11 and clue the horror check if he really wanted to... but I take the point, and I'm a really big fan of Dana myself. Her Fight bar is bigger than you think - she's 4/1. In a perfect world, one of those points might shunt across to her top Speed, but she's still wonderful, especially if she can get herself a motorbike (or a Colt).

I know maybe 4 investigators by name. What profession are they (the nun, the soldier, etc) ?

Sorry, I've messed you about by referring to Carolyn Fern as Dana [Scully]. It's mostly a hair thing. I apologise. Also, the Colt is Eric, speedy ally, and not a gun at all.

As for Joe - there is only one Joe Diamond, PI.

Mr Mauve wrote: Also, the Colt is Eric, speedy ally, and not a gun at all.

Actually, th so-called ".45 automatic" *is* clearly a Colt 1911 model. Even children know that.
The best .45 Auto I ever shot, by the way.

When we play we always refer to it as "the Colt".
(likewise, we call "Winchester" the Carbine Rifle, though it might actually be an Henry rifle...)

357magnum wrote:

Mr Mauve wrote: Also, the Colt is Eric, speedy ally, and not a gun at all.

Actually, th so-called ".45 automatic" *is* clearly a Colt 1911 model. Even children know that.
The best .45 Auto I ever shot, by the way.

When we play we always refer to it as "the Colt".
(likewise, we call "Winchester" the Carbine Rifle, though it might actually be an Henry rifle...)

Oh dear, this is getting complicated. I was disambiguating my post about improving Carolyn Fern, not casting aspersions on the contents of Joe Diamond's holster. Of course, perhaps you know that and are deliberately baiting me. HOW DARE YOU!

So...Eric is like Seavers? What?

Hi all,

I've been on-and-off lurking on this board for about two years now, and every now and then I got the urge to write something. Only after reading through this thread I felt compelled to register. I just have to make a confession to you all:

I love Dexter Drake.

(Strictly platonic, by the way)

Really, I never got why so many people hate him. In many games I played with different friends Dexter was the main monster killer and gate closer. He's often been so amazing that I had six different friends shake their heads in disbelief when I told them that many people on this board think he's useless. Of all the characters in the game, Dexter has even been the most consistantly succesful guy. He was my first pick when we recently tried the first scenario, and although I was extremely unlucky (kept getting sucked through gates), he did give us two gate trophies in the end as well as several heavy blows against Yig.

It seems that his 'low' sanity rating is the main focus of the Dexterbashers. But the thing with Dexter is that he can take some blows on both fronts, and he shouldn't fear some damage - it's okay to spend one turn in the asylum if that is the price for being totally awesome in the previous turn. Also, he's not totally dependent on spells, he can hold his own as a fighter pretty well. With his ability it is also pretty easy to obtain spells with a low sanity cost, and if your starting spells aren't what you wanted then you can simply buy a new spell in the first turn (he starts in the shoppe with 5 gold).
It's easy for Dexter to cast two withers and get a +6. A +9 bonus, about the most powerful combo there is (for a mere cost of one sanity), is even easier to get since shrivelling is one of his starting spells. Horror checks may occasionaly be a problem but with his will at max, he often still has a chance.

Dexter rules. He has ruled, often. I've seen it. I have witnesses.

As for other characters, some of you may be surprised to hear that the biggest monster body counts I've seen were by sister Mary in one game (a friend of mine played for her and she's known to us as the Killer Nun ever since), and by Carolyn Fern in another game. That latter game also featured Dexter and was against Cthulhu himself. I was so pleased with the end results, and so amazed by especially Carolyn, that I wrote the results down:

4 investigators vs Cthulhu, played on New Year's eve and finished on New Year's day 2007-2008
Investigators:
Vincent Lee
Carolyn Fern
Dexter Drake
Joe Diamond
Won with 33 points by sealing 6 gates.
Vincent closed 2 gates, killed a Formless Spawn, a Cultist, a Maniac, a Witch, a Fire Vampire
Joe closed 3 gates, killed a Maniac, a Zombie, a Dimensional Shambler and 2 Elder Things
Dexter closed 2 gates, killed a Hound of Tindalos, 3 Ghouls, a Shoggoth, a Zombie, a Nightgaunt and a Byakhee
Carolyn closed 3 gates, killed 2 Chtonians, 2 Ghosts, a Dimensional Shambler, a Shoggoth, a Formless Spawn, a Star Spawn, a Dhole, a Gug, a High Priest, 3 Cultists (one with an extra toughness due to a mythos card) and a warlock

Although I personally remain to be fairly underwhelmed by Vincent Lee, I have come to acknowledge (especially after the abovementioned game) that there aren't really any bad characters in Arkham Horror!

Why Dexter sucks:

1. Low Will/Low Sanity spellcaster. Cast a spell, visit Asylum... rinse, repeat...

2. Starts with no clues. Sealing gates fast is huge in Arkham...

3. No Luck. To keep his Lore up high enough to cast spells he is frequently at zero Luck. I cringe when having encounters in the Outer Worlds with Dexter.

4. Spells suck. Wow, I get to lose a sanity for a chance to get a bonus in combat that if I fail the spell check not am I only a sanity shorter I am now fighting one-handed. Awesome. I think I'll go with one of the 85000 Magical Weapons they have now...

5. Lame special ability. See #1 and #4 above.

Having said that I had a great game with Dexter last night. I got this "spell" out of the common item deck called "Flamethrower". It rocked.