BTW, case in point to my last post.   Remember Rolemaster, well someone at ICE got a great idea to make the game better, so they scrapped 2e RM and made Rolemaster Standard, well that was too hard so they made Rolemaster fantasy Roleplay, oh wow, you mean we didnt fix that either?  Ok we F'ed up, so they put a new version called (get this now) Rolemaster Classic, a cleaned up RM 2e, which they already had.   I mean who would have thought that the original was better.....ummmmmmmm, let me think.........., oh yeah, THE PEOPLE PLAYING IT!!!!!

Do I have to spell it ot FFG?

WFRP 2e will be better than, oh say anything not based on 2e WFRP, like 3rd edition, duh!......

 WTF, were is it written everything has to change!?, I am so sick of the assinine idiots on these and other forums that start spewing this hogwash that we must change and move forward, well maybe sometimes but when something is working as is and not broken, there is no damn reason except GREED to change it!

Just stick with 2e wfrp, make some new books on the Elven lands, add the damn Lizardmen nations in and complete shit before moving on to some hairball shit boardgame!  This is the same type of BS that is bringing down WoTC and DnD, sales of Pathfinder are outrageous and people are dumping 4e on ebay for 50% off now and less, why?  Because 4e sucked!  Thats progress for ya huh?.......Same shit different company....

"its the end of the world!"

"how dare you change something!"

"how can you possibly try and move on with some new ideas when there are old ones around?"

Good gods, listen to yourselves. You'd think FFG had decided that in order to continue playing WRFP in any form you have to cut your left arm off and stand on your head. Its a NEW EDITION. Thats all. Yes, there are changes, and they may or may not be for better or worse, but until you've actually had chance to TRY them, quit bitching and moaning. Things change. Its a fact of life. They don't always change for the better, but they don't always change for the worse, either. How many of you, When WFRP 2nd Edition came along, decried at its rules changes? And how did that work out in the end? Pretty good, eh? Exactly.

I freely admit I did the same with 4th Edition D&D; I wrote it off as a game with interest only in combat that took too many cues from MMO's. And they I actually played it, and you know what? Its bloody good fun.

Based on my experience with FFG products to date, I have never, not once, been dissapointed with anything they have released. WRFP 3rd edition may buck that trend, it may not. But I will wait and reserve judgement until I actually have chance to find out, with my own eyes, and until then, I will await with cautious interest.

I can totally understand that old-timers end up with a sour aftertaste here. I'm one of them myself and I think (with some minor exeptions) that I own everything ever published for this game... I do not own the 1st edition box though... dammit.

But my personal opinion is this: I still feel invigorated by new things and welcome a fresh start. Honestly I have more WFRP 2nd edition stuff than I ever think we will have time to play through. So really... do I need more?

What I will lack, when the old line dies, is my own personal experience of buying a new WFRP book and reading it alone with my coffee.

But hey... I can do that with the new game too, can't I?

If it's good that is... I'm holding my breath. If it sucks... then you guys just killed the best game out there and I will never forgive you for it.

/wolf

It never fails that innovation and exploration of new ideas causes many to proclaim the imminent falling of the sky.

The incessant babbling of the internet never ceases to amaze.

Have any of you played this game?  No, so hold your opinions until you have.

I'm NOT curious, and I;m NOT buying this shit!
I want rest of 2-nd edition books to be released in my language (the last one was Terror in Talabhaim), but it's unlikely since FFG is not backing those books up anymore...
And I'm really considering to stop buying FFG stuff (very good on most cases) if they will release this crap.

I am a big believer in constructive criticism, so here goes (and many of my points have been said already, but we gamers are opiniated and I need my two shillings in here.)

I am confused by this new edition. Companies usually only publish new editions of a game when the old edition is floundering badly. I don't see how FFG could have decided on the fate of 2nd edition so quickly (clearly 3rd has been in design prep for quite awhile, so it's plausible this was in the works since the early days of the BI change over). Also, it's strange that they pulled this after proving they can publish great 2nd ed books like the Career Compendium and Shades of Empire. So all in all, I'm shocked and very disappointed in this news.

While the box art for 3rd ed looks wonderful (I would expect nothing less from FFG) I cannot say I can get behind the direction the game is going. Some on here have said "don't knock it until you try it." Well that may be true, but I see no need to try it. It does not resemble a roleplaying game in the classical sense and I did not play 4th ed D&D for that very reason. Also, there is nothing wrong with 2nd ed at all; it is a fantastic game. If you've been WFRPing since 1st ed like I have, then you know it is not difficult to blend the editions together and have one densely fun experience. I do not see that 3rd ed will able to blend at all, so there is no point in getting it. I have all the books I need in the old editions to game for a very long time. I would have liked to have seen more, but it won't happen now.

Some other points: If this game is meant to draw new blood into WFRP, why the $100 price tag? That will shut folks down right out of the gate.

And all the exciting verbage in the press release about the book content: " The Tome of Mysteries is your guide to wizards and the winds of magic....  The Tome of Blessings provides information on priests and the gods they follow. Information on the Cults of Sigmar, Shallya, Ulric, Taal, and others are contained within this volume..."  All of this exists in spades already in great detail in books already on the shelves. Why are we backing up? I have more information on the deities of the Old World then I could ever hope to use. This seems so pointless. Unless once again, this is all for the benefit of the newbie and we old guard are left out in the cold again.

And for those of you who are saying "if you don't like it then stick with the old edition." That is just pedestrian and passive. We have forums for a reason and we need to voice our concerns. Otherwise our thoughts and opinions on the games we love will never be considered. People who just roll over and take what is offered no matter what  just impede progress and further support these types of choices by companies.

Sorry FFG; you rarely miss in my book, but this is not something I can support. I will be sticking with the previous editions, but I wanted to give my reasons why first. I just ask that you don't do this to Dark Heresy/Rogue Trader; although I already know you won't. I wish you had that kind of foresight with WFRP. It deserved better.

I'm curious.

I'm buying. (I really don't care about the price tag being a little on the steep side. Heck the Descent box and Age of Conan are not that far off and if it's good it's worth it.)

If it suck how ever... I'm probably going to deman my money back.

But damn I'm curious... I want more info!

/wolf

 OMFG, GW needs to pull the License for WHFRP ASAP from FFG, wtf are you nitwits smoking?   $100.00 for a Hybrid RPG/BOARD GAME, get the F*&^ outta here!   This doesn't work nimrods, these Hybrid games fail every time they're tried, the Board Gamers want a board game, the Roleplayers want a damn RPG, get your heads out of your asses and go back and start making WFRP 2e stuff, quit trying to be cutting edge!

This game will CRASH AND BURN...

and in 20 years time there will be people still playing  the REAL WFRP...

LoM.

I think this will be great. Don't like, then stick to the edition you like. Simple.

I like your soapbox nonstop.

Dont give up hope, i believe that 3rd edition (or whatever FF wants to call it) will have as much quality as they put into the other Warhammer products they create      Dark Heresy (an awesome game)  Rogue Trader ,  WHFRP 2ed , Chaos in the Old World and the pure distilled Awesomeness that Warhammer Invasion will be.

"The game looks great.It's even better than [...] D'n'D."

You know, for many of us this is like saying that dirt is better than filth...

Have You seen the pics or heared what Jay said at GenCon? If no then be sorry. The game looks great.It's even better then WFRP 2ed or D'n'D . I love what Jay and his team made with the game.

I must say it's a must buy for me. Can't wait when it will come out and I can buy it. I hope it will be sooner then Christmas this year.

Keep up the good work FFG, Jay Little and all the other team members that work od WFRP 3ed. Your doing an amazing job!

The king 2ed is dead, LONG LIVE THE KING WFRP 3ed! WFRP 3ed RULES!

*Stepping up on Soapbox*

I'm a huge WFRP fan. It's probably my second favorite RPG after Call of Cthulhu. I really felt like (engine-wise) Green Ronin did a masterful job of bringing everything that was good about first edition into second edition and weeding out pretty much all that was broken about the game. I haven't really had any complaints about the second edtion.

That said, count me among those very intrigued and excited by this announcement. I love games. All games. RPGs are my lifelong love, but I've seen lots of mechanics and other design elements in boardgames, miniatures battle games and card games over they years that I thought could be successfully dovetailed into an RPG.

I've actually been playing a Descent: Road to Legend campaign with my best friend that incorporates numerous RPG elements into the game. We role play out the tavern scenes and confrontations with the "bosses" in the dungeons. We come up with all new names and backstories for our characters and really bring that part into the game. It's a very satisfying incorporation of roleplaying into a board game.

Now, I think FFG is flipping this, bringing elements from their incredibly successful background in board games into the tried-and-true RPG. And after watching the videos from GenCon and reading the material on FFG's site, I believe this is a true RPG just with a 21st century interface and components.

There's quite a bit to be said for having all of the information on your character and their abilities in front of you in detail, without having to flip through the books for details of abilities or effects. I also think custom dice can do more than tell you whether or not you succeed or fail in a given check, adding more wrinkles and giving you a solid foundation for imagining and describing the entirety of the success or failure.

FFG does this exceptionally well with the dice like those in Doom, Descent and those for movement in Runebound. They are far more interesting than achieving some numerical goal, adding flavor and detail to the roll without being cumbersome.

Another element I'm excited about is the attention to the "party" dynamic and having elements of play that are tied concretely to the construction and "personality" of the party. I've enjoyed similar devices in Exalted with Solar Circles and Ars Magica with Covenants. The idea of an innovative execution of this all-important concept is one I'm very interested in experimenting with.

Then, there's the fact that the components sound exquisite. I LOVED my second edition D&D boxed sets. Forgotten Realms. Kara-Tur. Ravenloft. SpellJammer. Filled with the maps, books and overlays. Even when I wasn't gaming I loved cracking them open and just poring over the materials.

It's true my favorite game is Call of Cthulhu, which tends to have simple black and white books, a generic rules set, and average artwork. That said, I am a sucker for presentation, and this game looks like it makes a major effort to engross players with the multiple full-color tomes, art-rich cards and icon-based dice. None of which make for a good game in and of themselves, but if FFG has done as I hope they have they've kept a core of a really solid RPG in this ostentatious package.

People who talk about this breaking the mood of the Old World sure are being ive in what they interpret as canon. Yes the Old World has an amazing sense of this war-torn land with dark and cosmic horror seeping through the cracks. But it's also the world of Blood Bowl. It's also the world of William King's over-the-top cheesy Gotrek and Felix adventures. It's also the world of Goblin Fanatics and Shamans who blow their heads off with miscasts.

And as far as this shift in interface representing some sort of blasphemy in terms of interacting with the Warhammer world, I was enjoying the hell out of games like Warhammer Quest, Heroquest and Battlemasters while I was first developing my understanding of what that world was, and I can assure you they didn't in the slightest destroy any illusions.

Finally, as far as the cost goes, $100 is a nice chunk of change. That's undeniable.

However, I have several hundred dollars worth (EACH) of WFRP 1E and 2E and Dark Heresy books so why the outrage? RPGs are expensive. Core books are regularly $50+ and rarely do they constitute all one needs to play. Even if WFRP is admittedly teetering toward obscene end in price for an RPG, I still see a box with all four people need to enjoy the heck out of a game for hours and hours on end for the same or less as you can buy a couple of video games that will be obsolete in a few months.

Now, anybody has seen me on BGG or has checked out nonstoptabletop.com knows I like FFG games. Anybody reading my bio, however, will also know I came to the hobby through role playing and still hold that as the most sacred gaming experience. I've been playing Warhammer for a dozen years and that IP is something I care a great deal about as well. I could be completely wrong about all of this, but I have confidence in FFG as a company to innovate and improve upon a game I already love.

If they don't, they sure as Hell aren't going to break into my house and steal all of the 2E stuff I have, which is more than enough to go on enjoying the game as is in perpetuity. For that matter, most of the best stuff for any RPG is released in the first year, anyway. After that, it's almost always a crap-shoot.

At the very least, I'm going to wait until I see it and play WFRP 3E before I pass final judgment.

It might just be that the guys at FFG know what they're doing.

*Stepping down off soapbox*