Fantasy Flight Games [Forum Star Wars: Edge of the Empire Beta] - Leading publisher of board, card, and roleplaying games.

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The Spaniard said:

Aranelthemithra said:

The Spaniard said:

Hey there, thanks for the reasoned reply. Again, we feel the software is well worth the price, but understand if it doesn't fit with your style of gaming.

As you say, it is not an easy, or cheap, development process to code and create an app to a polished level. As opposed to the old WFRP app, this app supports both generic dice in addition to X-Wing, and SW: RPG dice, and it features other customizing options (sounds, etc) and, of course, the ability to have real Star Wars visuals and sounds. We did not use the old WFRP dice-app code architecture, so that we could have an app that was available on both iOS and Android.

I agree with your assessment of app pricing, but I'm not convinced that stand-along apps will not be viable in the future. I'm encouraged by the upward pricing trend, which will allow companies like FFG to invest in these services with a hope of breaking-even.

Cheers,

Christian
FFG

It's truly unfortunate that while your company was working hard to provide the App for IOS and Android, you seemed to have forgotten to make it available for the one platform that's actually MORE likely to be at a gaming table than either of the two above mentioned - Windows.

I know exactly ONE person who brings a smart-phone to the gaming table. ALL of my players bring laptops or netbooks.

I think failing to provide a Windows compatible Dice Roller is a serious oversight on your company's part and that - coupled with the fact that there are no actual dice for this game (that are reliable and don't require more work than they're worth) makes it very very hard to do what you've asked us to do with this game - play test it.

I can't even begin to express my dismay at this oversight, and honestly, when this book comes out in February, I am not sure I'll pick it up.

I do wish you folks would have tried a little harder to make real dice available with the Beta, it would have been tough, but I think it could have been done had there been a true inclination to it.

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Corradus said:

I think failing to provide a Windows compatible Dice Roller is a serious oversight on your company's part and that - coupled with the fact that there are no actual dice for this game (that are reliable and don't require more work than they're worth) makes it very very hard to do what you've asked us to do with this game - play test it.

I can't even begin to express my dismay at this oversight, and honestly, when this book comes out in February, I am not sure I'll pick it up.

I do wish you folks would have tried a little harder to make real dice available with the Beta, it would have been tough, but I think it could have been done had there been a true inclination to it.

Are you complaining that a game that has not been released yet hasn't had all of its bits and pieces…..released yet? You got a beta version of the game and you got a beta version of the dice. The quality versions of either come later.

What would happen if they made lots of physical dice, had them on the shelves, then the beta testing changed some of their faces? Customers would be outraged when having to buy new dice!! So instead they provide some stickers and an app they can easily update for free if things get changed.

As for a Windows version, yes that would be nice. BUT, that would be counter productive to a company that (like all for profit companies) have an intention of making money. Smart phone apps have been accepted as often having a charge. How many small Windows "apps" do you download for a cost? Full sized games, sure. Small apps for Windows are not generally avaialbe for a charge. So if FFG did such they would be lambasted at this forum for charging a fee for such a small program. If they did in fact charge for a Windows app, it would be quickly copied for other potential customers, something not easily done with smart phone apps. Add to this that the free/copied program would be competing directly with their physical dice or phone app and I think it makes complete sense for FFG not to release it.

Star Wars Edge Playaids
Warhammer Playaids

"I dont need a medal, God knows what I did" - SGT William Hisle, WWII, after receiving a letter regarding a belated recommendation for the Medal of Honor. A hero twicefold, he threw the letter away. RIP Grandfather.

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Sturn said:

Are you complaining that a game that has not been released yet hasn't had all of its bits and pieces…..released yet? You got a beta version of the game and you got a beta version of the dice. The quality versions of either come later.

What would happen if they made lots of physical dice, had them on the shelves, then the beta testing changed some of their faces? Customers would be outraged when having to buy new dice!! So instead they provide some stickers and an app they can easily update for free if things get changed.

As for a Windows version, yes that would be nice. BUT, that would be counter productive to a company that (like all for profit companies) have an intention of making money. Smart phone apps have been accepted as often having a charge. How many small Windows "apps" do you download for a cost? Full sized games, sure. Small apps for Windows are not generally avaialbe for a charge. So if FFG did such they would be lambasted at this forum for charging a fee for such a small program. If they did in fact charge for a Windows app, it would be quickly copied for other potential customers, something not easily done with smart phone apps. Add to this that the free/copied program would be competing directly with their physical dice or phone app and I think it makes complete sense for FFG not to release it.

What I am complaining about is that I have been asked - indeed for a price on my part - to do a job and have not been given the proper tools to do so, unless I am willing to fulfill certain rarified criteria. You may say these criteria aren't rarified, they're no big deal etc. I disagree.

Customers would indeed feel upset having to buy new dice, but I postulate that this anger would be minor and would pass. After all, they bought a BETA copy of a game readily enough (and don't kid yourself folks, when the polished version appears, ain't nobody gonna be seriously using the Beta anymore). Why would they balk at having to buy Beta dice? That makes no sense to me.

Your final point is also a mite queer to me. You say that people aren't "used" to paying for small programs on their computer? You may be right, but I doubt it anybody will be angry if they have to pay five bucks for a dice program whose utility and value actually makes it a better buy than physical dice. I think that's a weak argument and an awful lot of excuse-making.

Now, where you DO have a point is the concern about Windows Dice App Piracy. But I believe that the technology exists to make this extremely difficult if not impossible. But you know, your line of logic if taken to the extreme says that nothing should ever be created for Windows because people will just pirate it - which, if it was the case would see Windows collapse as a OS because nobody could make money writing programs for it. This just isn't true. The trap you're falling into is believing that NOBODY would EVER pay for something they can pirate. It's not the case. Now, would people buy LESS of something that can be pirated? Yes. But nobody would go broke creating a five dollar app for Windows, come on now. Piracy is reprehensible, but it's also a reality of the digital age (for now), and much like in the age of sail, one didn't avoid ocean travel because there were pirates. Good thing too.

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I don't disagree that the Win7 version might be last on the list. Though Kindles are very common and Win8 OS will be very common in the near future.

It would be nice to have the Star Wars Dice app up and running for both of these systems. Currently I would purchase the software, but my Kindle doesn't seem to be supported.

As for just being a beta. I would argue it is NOT just for the Star Wars RPG beta. I also play the X-wing Miniatures game and D20 games. The Star Wars Dice app supports all of these games. I actually want it more the Star Wars Miniatures game at the moment, but it would be very nice to see it in action for the Beta.

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Corradus said:

But you know, your line of logic if taken to the extreme says that nothing should ever be created for Windows because people will just pirate it - which, if it was the case would see Windows collapse as a OS because nobody could make money writing programs for it. This just isn't true. The trap you're falling into is believing that NOBODY would EVER pay for something they can pirate. It's not the case. Now, would people buy LESS of something that can be pirated? Yes. But nobody would go broke creating a five dollar app for Windows, come on now. Piracy is reprehensible, but it's also a reality of the digital age (for now), and much like in the age of sail, one didn't avoid ocean travel because there were pirates. Good thing too.

I never said anything like, "nothing should ever be created for Windows". That's a huge leap from what I said. Not even close. What I did say clearly was that making such an app would cut into the profit margin at FFG. Of course many would get the app even if it had a price tag. I for one would. The point I was trying to make was that many others would simply get a pirated copy. That obviously would cut down on some sales of physical dice and the smart phone app. If the profit margin was slim (I think that was suggested above by an FFG employee), then it might be a very bad idea for FFG to make a Windows "app" even if many of us would love it.

I think a Windows app could be something for FFG to consider after the game is well under way. Creating a Windows app after sales of physical dice and smart phone apps have trickled off would probably be a good idea for FFG. I'm just guessing that it was considered and their minds believed it was not a good idea to compete with their other products yet.

Star Wars Edge Playaids
Warhammer Playaids

"I dont need a medal, God knows what I did" - SGT William Hisle, WWII, after receiving a letter regarding a belated recommendation for the Medal of Honor. A hero twicefold, he threw the letter away. RIP Grandfather.

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Sturn said:

Corradus said:

I never said anything like, "nothing should ever be created for Windows". That's a huge leap from what I said. Not even close. What I did say clearly was that making such an app would cut into the profit margin at FFG. Of course many would get the app even if it had a price tag. I for one would. The point I was trying to make was that many others would simply get a pirated copy. That obviously would cut down on some sales of physical dice and the smart phone app. If the profit margin was slim (I think that was suggested above by an FFG employee), then it might be a very bad idea for FFG to make a Windows "app" even if many of us would love it.

I think a Windows app could be something for FFG to consider after the game is well under way. Creating a Windows app after sales of physical dice and smart phone apps have trickled off would probably be a good idea for FFG. I'm just guessing that it was considered and their minds believed it was not a good idea to compete with their other products yet.

Umm, yeah, except that we kinda need dice now. While we're testing the game. So, while I am sure Les Tetes Grand at FFG considered it carefully, in rejecting making a Windows Dice App, they erred.

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Corradus said:

Umm, yeah, except that we kinda need dice now. While we're testing the game. So, while I am sure Les Tetes Grand at FFG considered it carefully, in rejecting making a Windows Dice App, they erred.

1. Stickers with the Beta book to be applied to dice.

2. Dice sticker sheet printed from the FFG support section.
http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/StarWarsRPG/edge-of-the-empire/beta/support/SWR01_Dice%20Stickers%20(high-res).pdf

3. Dice rolling app for smartphones or an Ipad.

4. A conversion chart included in Beta for using generic gaming dice.

It's Beta and they have already given several options for dice. Yes the "real" dice would be best, but as I said above perhaps the faces on the dice (exact numbers of each symbol) will change during Beta. I've already seen that discussed. So, knowing it's a Beta and things still may change, they've still given you several options. Lots of people have been play testing the game apparently doing fine with one of the options above.

As has been noted, they might not even be licensed to make a Windows app.

Star Wars Edge Playaids
Warhammer Playaids

"I dont need a medal, God knows what I did" - SGT William Hisle, WWII, after receiving a letter regarding a belated recommendation for the Medal of Honor. A hero twicefold, he threw the letter away. RIP Grandfather.

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I downloaded the dice rolling app today. It works smoothly, easily, and looks good as everyone commented.

I would echo that I would like a tally of the total results. This could speed things up during play if I'm using my Iphone in place of the dice players are rolling on the table. I wouldn't have to look up at the dice rolled and see which cancel each other out, just look at the totals.

Star Wars Edge Playaids
Warhammer Playaids

"I dont need a medal, God knows what I did" - SGT William Hisle, WWII, after receiving a letter regarding a belated recommendation for the Medal of Honor. A hero twicefold, he threw the letter away. RIP Grandfather.

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Daegren said:

Kallabecca said:

Daegren said:

Will this be available for the Kindle Fire?

Are you looking in Google's Play store or the Amazon app store? I'm guessing that by default, Amazon doesn't have Play on the Fire. See if you can side-load it to your Fire and look at the Play store. The Fires run 2.3 and the app says it needs 2.2 or better.

I tried just going through the google play store and it only shows my wife's tablet.

I'm up to date on my device (running 6.3.1)

Sounds like you're looking at the store while logged into a google account that isn't associated with your Kindle Fire. I see similar issues when I'm logged in to alternate google accounts (due to being at one of my jobs).

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Sturn said:

Corradus said:

1. Stickers with the Beta book to be applied to dice.

2. Dice sticker sheet printed from the FFG support section.
http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/StarWarsRPG/edge-of-the-empire/beta/support/SWR01_Dice%20Stickers%20(high-res).pdf

3. Dice rolling app for smartphones or an Ipad.

4. A conversion chart included in Beta for using generic gaming dice.

It's Beta and they have already given several options for dice. Yes the "real" dice would be best, but as I said above perhaps the faces on the dice (exact numbers of each symbol) will change during Beta. I've already seen that discussed. So, knowing it's a Beta and things still may change, they've still given you several options. Lots of people have been play testing the game apparently doing fine with one of the options above.

As has been noted, they might not even be licensed to make a Windows app.

*sigh*

1+2 Suck. Yes, people use them. People live in mud huts too, that doesn't make it fun to do so.

3 I don't have a Smartphone. Most gamers I know don't have a Smartphone…OR an iPad of all things…

4 *laughs* yeah, okay. A) Gets players used to using numbers instead of symbols, B) is like attaching a fork to another fork and then trying to eat your dinner that way and C) Slows down the damn game.

Yeah yeah, I know. "OTHER people can do it, why can't you?" *shrug* I dunno. But what I do know is on my planet, you use the right tool for the right job, and you content yourself with nothing less.

And I don't believe for a second that they couldn't have gotten the rights to make a Windows App - and we've gotten no word from FFG that this was the case.

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Kallabecca said:

Sounds like you're looking at the store while logged into a google account that isn't associated with your Kindle Fire. I see similar issues when I'm logged in to alternate google accounts (due to being at one of my jobs).

Everything I have read online mentions Google play is currently not compatible with Amazon Fire/tablet devices. They are direct competitors and neither company is allowing the other one access.

I can try to change root directory, but honestly its not worth all that effort for this software.

In the end, it would just be nice if FFG lists the app on Amazon marketplace so us Kindle users (2nd most popular tablet in the US) can download the software.

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Daegren said:

Kallabecca said:

Sounds like you're looking at the store while logged into a google account that isn't associated with your Kindle Fire. I see similar issues when I'm logged in to alternate google accounts (due to being at one of my jobs).

Everything I have read online mentions Google play is currently not compatible with Amazon Fire/tablet devices. They are direct competitors and neither company is allowing the other one access.

I can try to change root directory, but honestly its not worth all that effort for this software.

In the end, it would just be nice if FFG lists the app on Amazon marketplace so us Kindle users (2nd most popular tablet in the US) can download the software.

Well, that sucks. I did find one comment from a Forbes article about how to install apps to a Fire from a device that does have access to Google Play.

It’s actually not as complicated as it’s made out to be. You just download ES File Explorer (rooting phone not necessary), go to the manage apps tab, long press and check backup app to sd card. Then you can move the app apk from your phone to computer to fire easy. :)

My Random Gaming Blog

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A business has a very basic model of operation, that has to answer one question. "Will the investment of our time and money make us at least X times the initial costs?". Now X should probably be no lower than 1.5 but could easily be 2,3,4,5… If the project does not meet the basic criteria of making the company money, then there is no reason a company should logically put effort into the project.

My guess is, that FFG doesn't want to get into the Windows/Mac application development arena… That is not their expertise or part of their business. While some people may see full blown computer operating system applications as a great fit for table top RPG, it is really a horribly huge animal to control… Take for example any of the VTT systems (like Fantasy Grounds) or commercial character builder applications (like Hero Builder), those companies are 100% invested in application development, the amount of time and effort these companies spend on making their applications run smoothly is tremendous and they have a very limited market. FFG has basically a zero presence in computer application development, in order for them to develope a computer application, they would have to hire people to program said applications, which takes lots of money.

The dice rolling app for smartphones as has been suggested before is easier to update when and if they make changes to the dice system, it is easier to sell to the targeted audience, and has an entry point $ that is attractive enough that people will click to purchase. It is also more than likely a modified version of their WHFRPG dice rolling application and it has the draw of the X Wing miniature game as well as basic dice rolling… Trending also points to the fact that pretty much all phones going forward will be smartphones and tablets will be the future of everyday computing, it would be like Sony investing in a new physical media player like DVDs or CDs when everything is oing digital, it doesn't make good business sense.

Investment (I) = Time + Money

X = money company makes from sale of product or service

Y = set amount of $$$ that company determines would make their product or service profitable enough to produce

ROI = Return on Investment = What company makes in $$$ for making and investment, when successful expressed as I + X => Y

IF I + X < Y THEN STOP = The point where a company says we can't make this product or service and make money

Windows platform application for RPGs = I + X < Y

Take all of that with a healthy does of salt or sugar, whichever makes it easier to swallow ;-)

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As a caveman living in the stone age without any form of smartphone or tablet, I am pleased to say I have found a way to run the app on Windows and Mac. Simply install Blue Stacks, a completely legal Android emulator.

bluestacks.com

Works great on my laptop and I'm excited to try it out when I test the game in a week or so!

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beeblebrox said:

As a caveman living in the stone age without any form of smartphone or tablet, I am pleased to say I have found a way to run the app on Windows and Mac. Simply install Blue Stacks, a completely legal Android emulator.

bluestacks.com

Works great on my laptop and I'm excited to try it out when I test the game in a week or so!

You must have GEICO insurance ;-)

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