Mattr0polis said:

The Core Set determines the direction things will take in addition to providing the bulk of the cards for the first year or so. So, if the game starts out in a way I don't like, why would I invest and then later hope that the expansions fix the game?

herozeromes said:

I'm with Mattr0polis on this one. The fact that, as Karrde said, some objectives in the core do have other abilities indicates that it is something they will continue to develop on. Also, core sets are "supposedly" meant to whet the appetite of the hard core gamers while delivering an enjoyable experience to the more casual (but not truly casual) players. From that perspective, I can see how they would have special abilities on some objectives but not all of them. It makes it less overwhelming.

Also, I feel that having some objectives that only produce resources could possibly be a breath of fresh air so that you can just concentrate on the game play without 6 different effects affecting the playing field at one time, all the time.

Just my few cents.

I agree, I think in this instance particularly they'll want to create a base game that has the base mechanics, to entice the largest possible group into the game, a large proportion of whom, I'd anticipate, aren't the sort of gamers who would be into a game that is too complex. The time for layers will come with expansions, once that massive group has been successfully enticed. So I'm expecting to see objective cards that have more about them, stuff to complete and what-not, in the expansions. 

Every game ever starts out as low on rules/text as they can, and then build on the complexity.  You want to allow as many people as possible to be able to pick the game up at any time and not be overwhelmed. 

Yeah, you might lose some hard-core gamers if the experience isn't rich enough, but I doubt that will happen with a FFG game :)

It is a balancing act a little though…

 Contrary to my prior understanding, I've only seen one objective so far (Shadows of Dathomir) that does not have some secondary effect. The effects may not be the most complex cards in existence, but they certainly do more than produce resources and take x amount of damage.

Im reserving my final judgement till i try it out, but i still feel we didnt need another pvp card game, i think the x-wing mnis woulda been enough, and am sad no coop or solo, but if enough ppl push for solo ffg might still make it, they do seem to pay attention to the fans so, heres hoping.

spalanzani said:

So what you people (as you in the ones who're okay with game so far) are saying is, basically, that it's okay to make a simplified game, low on thematic game mechanics, just because it's Star Wars and apparently this generation of Star Wars fans are incapable of playing a game that's harder than munchkin?

And i'm not trying to bash FFG, i get why they're doing it. I'm just sad that they're aiming ONLY for the cheddar and not for the big opportunity that a Star Wars LCG could be.

And to be honest, i think a non-gamer would be more thrilled about going to dagobah and actually do some jedi training, messing with yoda or retreiving a x-wing from the swamps instead of getting "+1 card in hand". 

Bolfa Fluffbelly said:

This is not what anyone in this thread has said at all, but see what you want to see I guess.

The game is definitely fun and very strategic, not overly simplified. I've been playing it a lot with bootleg demo decks and it's greatly fun and very replayable.

It's just better to start out with the core mechanics of the game system and build out from there. This is exactly what FFG did for Lord of the Rings LCG and I'm assuming many of their other LCGs. Even Decipher Star Wars CCG started off very basic compared to where the game went with later expansions.

Lord of the Rings' core set was very straight forward, still very fun but mainly there to teach you the new system, and now the game has built off of that and has some outstandingly great depth and thematics with the adventure packs.

I'm sure this game will be no different. I'm already super intrigued with the bounty hunting/capturing system that they've mentioned a few times and is on Princess Leia's card. And that's something that's in the core set. I'm sure there's other greatly thematic stuff that we'll get also either in the core set or once the adventure packs start coming out, but you still have to start somewhere.

Bolfa Fluffbelly said:

No. I'm not okay with it, but what I'm saying is I accept it is to be expected, in order to get a lot of people into the game who aren't used to tabletop gaming of any description they're going to want to make it a straightforward game (not "easy", not necessarily "simple", but certainly straightforward. Such as the fuss they made at first of X-Wing having "intuitive" rules).

I'm not happy with it, I just accept it. Overwhelming people with rules, forcing them to keep track of upwards of a dozen card effects at once each round is not going to tempt people into putting the consoles away and giving this a try.

Mattr0polis said:

This is a very salient point. I would say, to continue the analogy, what we've actually seen of this game in the demo videos so far is the equivalent of LotR played using the pre-constructed Tactics deck. Who would buy that game if they'd only done that?

 As one of the people who are fine with this version I don't see why anyone wants their theme coming from the rule book. The cards are there to provide the theme with their interactions and abilities. Rulebooks that impose theme end up being the hot mess that the Decipher CCG rulebook was.  I loved the Decipher CCG but it was far from perfect and at the competative level theme took a back seat to whatever degenerate combo that had not got a silver bullet yet. 

We've seen some simple demo decks for the game but in my opinion we've seen enough of a structure to be able to say that the theme will be able to be represented fairly easily because the core rules are pretty straight forward. 

The only complaint I have with the current rules is the interaction of space and ground units. 

Mattr0polis said:

Not exactly. The complex rule system and mechanics that determined the feel of everything to come were in place with the Premiere release. The only thing that later expansions added were new types of cards that added sub-rules to the already complex system.

What I'm trying to say is: If the Objectives don't DO anything now, then how can they release Objectives later that DO something without power creep and obsolescence becoming a problem with the Core release? You could still win a game of SWCCG with Premiere only decks against other expansions even though there were some very devious strategies introduced later. If new releases actually make the Objectives DO something, then the entire core box will be nothing but Bantha Fodder.

herozeromes said:

All card games of this type have power creep. The key is to make it creep slowly. IMO FFG does a very good job of this with the other LCGs by having cards which give you more options within a narrow focus. 

herozeromes said:

you must have been playing a different SWCCG than I was. Taking a premier only deck to play against anything that was released after Cloud City was an invite to get curbstomped, quickly. And it was made even worse when Special Edition, objectives, and the EP packs were released. SWCCG had a huge amount of power creep over the course of the game. 

herozeromes said:

We haven't seen any Rebel objectives. We haven't seen any Imperial Navy objectives. Etc etc etc. I assume we haven't seen all of the Jedi objectives, nor all the Dark Jedi objectives. Who knows whether the demo was kept with purposefully simpler cards, to keep it from needing an hour or more to demo just one round of the game? 

We don't know yet whether core set objectives don't do anything. 

herozeromes said:

Exactly what Darksbane said. I played a LOT of Star Wars CCG. There was no way you were going to win anything with premiere only decks.

And some of the core box stuff probably WILL become worthless. It's just how card games are. But certainly not the whole core set. Even though you weren't going to win anything with premiere only Star Wars CCG decks, there were still quite a few premiere cards that were highly useful for a LONG time: Sense, Alter, Darth Vader, his lightsaber, the Millennium Falcon, X-wings, many other interrupts, etc. Same with FFG's Lord of the Rings LCG, where things have gotten much more thematic/complex and also more powerful, but many core set cards still remain quite relevant: Unexpected Courage, Test of Will, Feint, Northern Tracker, Steward of Gondor, etc.

And I'm sure this Star Wars LCG core set will be no different.