Manchu said:

Manchu said:

I TOTALLY agree with you! This is honestly getting stupid imo. If you want to buy it, then buy it. There is no reason to get upset over this. Just wait for the completed version to come out and then buy it. Case closed. No one is forcing you to buy it.  I mean is it really constructive to complain about this? Its FFG'S choice if they want to charge for it. And I dont mind helping out one bit. I bought it…its on its way… and ill let you know how much my group enjoys testing it.

How can we know how similar the beta is to the final release?  That's a pretty big assumption and it seems to me that the only thing supporting it is a negative attitude.  And even if the beta ends up being similar to the final release, how will anyone actually suffer from it?  In order for it to be a harmful business practice, I think someone will have to demonstrate real harm.

One thing should be noted (if it hasn't been already - I didn't take the time to read all of the rantings), in past iterations of Star Wars RPGs there was a very, VERY strict limitation on any digital aspects the company could put out per the license with Lucas.  THIS INCLUDES A PDF VERSION OF THE GAME.  If the license holds true to historical example, FFG simply is not allowed to release these Star Wars related books in PDF format.

GoblynByte said:

You are correct sir.

Lucasfilm classifies a PDF book as an electronic game. So if FFG wanted to sell PDFs the would have purchase an additional license from Lucasarts which deals with video game licenses.

Malifer said:

Dafuq?

How can a company be so dumb?

VagrantWhisper said:

Okay, you object to the idea of FFG offering players the chance to playtest the game and proofread it and submit other feedback. There are a lot of people who share this view, and to them I would say, wait to buy the final product, and do not participate.

There are also a lot of players like myself, who think this is a neat opportunity to make some contribution, probably nothing earth-shaking, mind you, to the RPG. Oh and by the way, I just bought pretty much a full-featured Star Wars RPG with rules that I like for $29.95. I could run a campaign with this book for years.

My point is, the existence of players such as myself justifies this entire concept. If nobody wanted this, then it would have been a bad idea, but clearly, some people do.

And that is the point of doing it in the first place.

klaymen_sk said:

ummm its not dumb seeing as how sooo many people dl the pdf files and the company looses money that way due to torrent sites …

klaymen_sk said:

It sounds like a primarily legal issue. That in the eyes of some courts, digital media = digital media. Any file or set of files that is accessed via a computer probably fall under the same classification.

That said, its their property, they can set the rules.

Count me in as someone who is going to buy the final book or not based on the actual content, rather than if I feel the beta is a slap in the face.

Pirate Spice said:

I'm just curious, what 'desirable character options' aren't available?  From what I've read, the only options that you cannot play straight out of the book are things like 'full' Jedi, hotshot fighter pilots, and maybe soldiers (although 'guns for hire' are available).

I'm less worried about the price of the book itself.  Though very unhappy about the shipping costs.  No option for a Media Mail shipping?  Dang I wish I had my budget right and time to get it at Gen Con.  But alas, by the time I discovered it I had a bit of a date arranged so, yeah, wasn't time to wait in line. ;)  Oh well, just meant 10 more dollars.  :(

Snowman0147 said:

Can I ask what you mean by 'doing it far better'?  

The Edge of the Empire book has only been available foe four days now; the description clearly states what sort of feedback that are looking for.  FFG have also stated that "We will be adding weekly updates to our website as the testing progresses."  How is that any different from the Only War beta?

Ski said:

-grab a book

-scan its contents

-put it into one file

-???

-profit

Yep, it is time consuming, but it can be done. And no amount of DRM can prevent you from doing it, unless the companies send one policeman to every customer to watch what they do with their books.

Piracy is a mere excuse. But that is for another thread.

klaymen_sk said:

If you're selling it, they will eventually catch you (that money has to go somewhere).

Still, I would stress that you move the conversation away from outright piracy. Its wrong, and any attempt to justify it (no matter how easy, common, publicly accepted it is) will fall flat.

Its their IP, their license to offer to those as they see fit. If they don't want PDFs made, then so be it.

DaemonicShaman said:

"…'full' Jesi, hotshot fighter pilots, and maybe soldiers…"

You just named three of the most iconic and/or essential roles of Star Wars. Those are exactly the options I'm talking about.

Honestly, I can forgive the $30 beta. Some excellent points have been made here about how there is obviously a market for it. I don't like it. I think it's ill-treatment of customers like me who would otherwise like to help out with feedback. But ultimately, I can get over it, as I play plenty of games I've never beta-tested for.

It's mostly the three core rulebooks that gets my goat, on top of the other issues I've named. It sucked when D&D did it, and at least they gave you entirely new material with each core book (PHB, DMG, MM). It sucked buying the same rules for each new World of Darkness line back in the old days. Even back when I played Palladium games, it was frustrating purchasing the same set of rules with every new game. To me, this seems like a huge step backward in RPG development, when other companies (e.g. White Wolf, Pinnacle) have figured out the way to go is a single, inexpensive core rulebook with modular books afterward to enhance the game. That would have worked so well here.