I think Iron Warriors will end up in the Slaanesh Book, because they seem to working on a theme here. In BoC we had Alpha Legion, who are tricky so it fits. In this we have Night Lords, crazy, blood thirsty, flaying space pirates that wear folk.You know terror and blood.  Slaanesh is the god of perfection, but we all know this and Iron Warriors are going for perfection in siege warfare. So thematically it could work. I donno who legion wise would share co-booking with Death Guard. I would like to see a Chaos Undivided book with Black Legion and Word Bearers.

Mtkrishna said:

I was really thinking we would see World Eaters and Iron Warriors in Tome of Blood, then Death Guard and Night Lords (Intimidate is aligned to Nurgle in BC) in Tome of Rot(?), and then Emeperor's Children and Word Bearers (because they're social) in Tome of Excess(?).

What the hell is chain hammer, and chain spear? How do they differ from chain axe, and chain halberd?

Well… one’s a hammer, the other is a spear. Neither of them are axes, and neither of them are halberds.

The hammer is a 2d10+something Rending Tearing Concussive thing that you need SB4 or higher to use one-handed. The Chainspear is a spear with Tearing. It may have something else. I forget.

The way I imagine it, Chain Hammer is just a bunch of chain axes strapped to each other to make a larger biting side. Can't really think of any other way to make it work, and you gotta agree that such a weapon is indeed extra Khorne-y 

My prediction:

-Deathgaurd paired with Iron warriors. Patience and toughness, both will work at you till they win, no matter how long it takes. Siege and Decay hand in hand.

-Emperor's Children paired with the Fallen Angels. While unaligned, the fallen angels tend to opperate inside imperial territory and are extremely adept at deception and that just fits the slaanesh theme in my mind. That and they keep secrets… dark secrets… and the slaaneshi greater deamon is named the keeper of secrets.

-Black Legion and Word Bearers paired in the chaos undivided book (assuming there is one), the two legions who regularly unite the powers of the different chaos gods under one banner. One focusing on the legions and cultists, the other focusing on the hosts of deamons and other warp spawned baddies, with back ground packages introduced here for the other major chaos marine groups that are not actual legions, like the red corsairs.

Further predictions:

-Nurgle book will have rules for deamon princes or some other simular thing.

-Slaaneshi book will have rules for turning the masses to the dark side.

-Chaos undivided book will have full rules for unleashing your black crusade upon the imperium.

As to the accusation that the black legion is nothing but failures: I believe someone pointed out that most of the black crusades abadon led achieved thier objectives. Their goals were not to wipe out the imperium in one fell swoop. I would say instead that the black legion is generic, and as the deathwatch book included the ultramarines, the epitome of generic-ness, I doubt they will leave out the black legion.

Speculation is fun. It's even more fun when you already know the answers. 



But Fallen Angels? Interesting guess. I've always thought of the Fallen as less of an organisation and more of scattered individuals or bands. They're probably too few in number to include as an Archetype though. In your opinion, how would they work?

BYE

H.B.M.C. said:

I'm partial to making a Forsaken and using my starting acquisitions on a Plasma Pistol and broken Power Sword

-Deathgaurd paired with Iron warriors. Patience and toughness, both will work at you till they win, no matter how long it takes. Siege and Decay hand in hand.

That is super clever, I like that. I donno about the Fallen in Slaanesh, I'd like to see a Fallen archtype though, it's one of the cool "lore" things. I think the Fallen would be a better fit with Black Legion in the maybe never to happen Undivided. Deamonhosts or the possessed would be pretty cool.

I'd also like to agree that the Black Crusades were goal oriented or at least seem to be. I'd like to think Abaddon is the heir to Horus and not some hack cobbeling together the forces of ruin to run around a bit raising Cain. But the truth is it could just as easily him getting out played and grabbing a niffty toy and fleeing back to the Eye saying "Yeah getting this giant space weapon and my Planet Killer shot down were the goals." I tend to lean more towards the "This was one small step in my plan" just because I choose to.

I was wondering what special abilitys of the new archtypes.

H.B.M.C. said:

As I believe thier defining characteristic is operating within the imperium, thier specials would be based on that. I'm not sure how exactly though. If FFG were to ever make an archetype intended to be used in a crossover game they could use these guys. I agree that the fallen are less of an oraganization, but so are the players in black crusade. That Thousand Sons Sorceror you rolled, well he left his legion to seek his own fame and fortune. The fallen are all that way, but so are most player characters, regardless of origin, so thematically they would fit in just fine. As for few in number, I'm not so sure. Didn't something like half the legion fall? My impression was that there are enough fallen angels out there to out number most individual space marine chapters, they are just all scattered everywhere and you never run into more than a handful at a time max.

It seems to me though that your question was really "Fallen Angels are small fries compared to the Chaos Legions, so why would FFG ever even consider them for an archetype?" Because they are significant to the lore, and because it could bring the systems closer together. I am a fan of crossover games, and even multi level games where the players are playing two opposed groups. The Idea of a dark angels deathwatch hero, hunting the same player's black crusade fallen angel is just awesome.

The real reason I would say they might not, is that the fallen angels would have less reason to hang out in the screaming vortex, and more inclenation to move throughout the imperium itself. In my opinion anyway.

PS: While reading this through before posting I had an Idea for thier special: Start with Peer (Adeptus Arbites)(Astra Telepathica)(Adeptus Mechanicus)(administratum)(Imperial Guard)(Imperial Navy)(Rogue Trader)(Planetary Defense Forces)(Planetary Governors) and Enemy 2 (Dark Angels). Any time they call in a favor from any peer, after the favor is used they must make a challenging +0 infamy check. If they fail, A Dark angel Interogator chaplain has tracked them to that contact and "disappeared" them. Each time this happens the next check is at a cumulative -10, and the level of the peer is reduced by 1(if it gets to 0 the peer trait is lost as all your contacts within the organization are dead), and this counts as a failing. When the penalty exceeds your infamy, the interogator chaplain catches them during their next compact, in addition to any other complications that may arise. Killing the Interogator chaplain and escaping counts as completing the primary and secondary objectives of a compact in regards to gaining infamy, and it resets the penalty to this infamy check, although it does not restore lost peer traits.

An idea for the Unaligned book: a Chaos sect with a black and white skull heraldry and a sacred number of 11, whose mighty champions terrorise the aligned servants of the 4 Chaos gods. Maybe they even rescue an Eldar goddess from the other Chaos gods.  ; )

Now about this Tome of Blood book, how much of it is fluff related to Khornate cults and factions? I'm dreading page after page of magic weapons and yet another new and completely unnecessary weapon trait/quality to remember. 

guest469 said:

I really hope we get an Unaligned book with Word Bearers and Black Legion. Adding in something for Malal/Malice would be really unexpected and cool. Also hoping we get more races down the line (Daemonhosts or Loxatl would both be neat.)

Any idea when we'll see Tome of Blood on Drive-Thru RPG or the like?

I reckon that the Word Bearers would be in the Slaanesh book with the Emperor's Children - the idea of beauty, purity of action, etc, could be seen to apply to the Word Bearers and the purity of their belief in the Chaos Gods.

I always got the impression that the Black Legion were the "generic marines", that wouldn't really see their own release.