Thanks again, for the post, jgt. I shall refrain from correcting anything, but it's very interesting to see how things come across to the uninitiated viewer. And quite a few observations were spot on or very close to the truth. Some confusion there about the historic elements (Mad Kings Aerys, the war, etc.), but if I hadn't read the books, I'd be just as confused.

Looking forward to reading from you next week :)

Ah, Tyrion. Of all the taverns in all the realm, you had to walk into HERS. Don’t you hate it when you come back from vacation and find another House wants you dead? Except that this is Westeros, and that probably just means its Thursday…

Tyrion remains my favorite character, his snappy words and Dinklage’s perfectly wry delivery. Tyrion seems to always know that “comeback you wish you thought of ten minutes ago”, and lead with it. Since it doesn’t appear that Tyrion ever does anything wrong…and by that I mean he seems to be the only Lannister with a closet not bursting with skeletons…he can let his “opponent” run off with assumptions Tyrion knows are crap. I loved watching him let Robb hang himself before whipping out Bran’s new centaurborg apparatus (LOVE THAT!); the faces of everyone in that whole scene were marvelous. “I have a tender spot in my heart for cripples, bastards, and broken things.” If Tyrion can keep that heart intact…i.e. prevent Catelyn from turning it into a wind chime…he might be the best ally the Starks could have against the Lannisters.

Am I supposed to know what a three-eyed dream raven is supposed to signify? TERRIFIC effect, though.

Eddard finally begins to delve into the whodunit of Jon Arryn, and I have been looking forward to that. It seems Arryn had discovered Gendry, a bastard Baratheon prince working as a blacksmith. He barely remembers his mother, but I’ll be damned if he doesn’t share the eyes of Eddard Stark. Did Stark’s sister have an heir before she had a chance to marry Baratheon? He’s definitely older than Joffrey: does “bastard” override “firstborn” when deciding royal succession? Because Gendry could be a serious hole card for Stark if Cersei starts making moves. Which she might already be if she killed Arryn (“Poison is the weapon of a woman) before he could reveal Gendry. (Although why not just kill Gendry? I would assume Arryn took that to his grave.)

Hey! Grand Maester Pycelle is Julian Glover! I just now recognized him! NEAT!!! Pycelle doesn’t like Varys. Renly hardly likes any of them. And nobody likes Baelish. As effective a Council as our House of Representatives.

>SIGH< Kudos to Mark Addy again, for making me dislike him so. Robert is just a boorish schmuck. The whores, the booze, the off-putting slovenliness at the tournament. Which they shouldn’t be having! Oh, I don’t know; maybe the people need to blow off some steam, but it feels more like Robert’s just bored, and wants some bloodsport to liven up a few hours between orgies. Speaking of which, it seems fairly petty to use these lustfests to rattle Jaime, but it makes me wonder how much Robert knows about how deep a bitch Cersei is, or how incestuous. But that doesn’t really dissuade me from calling him a lousy king. Obviously he wasn’t always this way, since he once led the rebellion, but this Robert is at the lower amplitude of his sine wave. It’s making me pretty mad that he dragged Eddard out of Winterfell to help, but now he just ignores him like he’s an AA sponsor to avoid. He’s lucky Stark has a greater sense of duty (or something).

The Mountain and the Hound. Yikes and yikes again. Obviously working for the Lannisters, to whichever end they pursue. Can’t say I have any feelings at all for Sir Hugh—I never like any jouster who tips his lance with a pretentious iron fist—but it seems like the Lannisters are excelling at removing anyone not on their side, one piece at a time: Arryn, then his squire… (FANTASTIC spitting death, though!) It could go back as far as Stark’s father, then the Mad King… Makes me want to meet the Lannister Patriarch Tyrion keeps insulting.

Samwell Tarly. >snicker< Reminds me of Private Pyle from Full Metal Jacket. Unsure of what Samwell brings to Jon’s story, but this collection of boy thugs have the makings of a good Z-Squad-vs-the-world story. That might shut Thorne up.

Daenerys has finally reached the point in her rise at which she will no longer take any more of Viserys’ petty BS: “The next time you raise a hand to me will be the last time YOU HAVE HANDS.” She’s gotten much stronger inside, clearly seeing her whiny brother is not the way home. (Curious about Rhaegar now. Too many main characters seem to have stronger older brothers who are dead.) However, this sets a dangerous precedent in Viserys’ twisted little mind. If he loses control of his sister, he loses control of his army. (The fact that he NEVER had control is lost on his “dragonborn” world view.) I dread what one of his reassertion tantrums might mean for Daenerys.

Still, I did rather enjoy the smidge of Targaryen History as told by Viserys. I wonder if any of those dragon skulls are still around in some basement somewhere. But then he dissed a girl who gets off on dragons because he’s “just that cool”. Which is sooo isn’t.

Jorah Mormont was a slaver. Not nearly as noble as a member of the Night Watch. Gotta be more to it, though: his “expensive wife” is “in another place with another man.” Does Martin drop leading lines like this in his books? Because I dig potential landmine plot threads like that.

I don’t think Sansa’s having as great a time in King’s Landing as Eddard seems to think. I haven’t seen her smile since the first episode. And Littlefinger still feels like a weasel telling her such a nasty story.

Arya is getting a wee bit darker. “That’s not me,” was spoken as much to herself as it was to her father. If she isn’t a “princess”…and I’ve been given no indication that this world would ever allow a girl to be a knight (even Eddard won’t buy that)…if I were to allow myself some wild downhill freewheeling speculation, I could see Arya becoming something like the Hound to the next administration. (Arya the Direwolf?)

Theon Greyjoy. What the hell happened there??? Only got half a story here, with half a deck of card to supplement: the Greyjoys own the Iron Islands (Kraken), and apparently something of a decent navy. In an unwise bid for power, they took that navy to Lannisport (because who doesn’t hate the Lannisters?) and pulled a Pearl Harbor. (Tyrion holds a pretty hefty grudge for that.) But it didn’t quite take, and Balon Greyjoy lost most of his heirs in the counterstrike. Was this during the Rebellion? Was Greyjoy taking advantage of the Targaryen power vacuum? I can’t think of another time Jory and Jaime would have been fighting together. Anyway, somehow, Greyjoy’s youngest (and alive) son ended up with Stark, who took him home and let him be great buddies with Robb. So, the Greyjoy who became a Stark, or the Stark who will remember he’s a Greyjoy? Probably not a question soon answered.

Oh, I must meet this red-headed Ros everyone seems to be passing around the North.

Thanks again for the write-up.

A few comments:

Nobody ever said Jorah Mormont was in the Night's Watch. Just because his father is doesn't mean he had to be as well.

The Greyjoy Rebellion was 6 years after Robert claimed the throne. They tried to assert their independance, but were crushed by Robert and his allies.

They are a raiding culture, so they've always had a good force at sea.

And just a quick comment on Gendry. It's not worth reading to much into similarities between actors. The actors were cast for their ability to portray the characters, not for details of their appearance (as is supported by the many casting decisions that ignore or somewhat differ from descriptions in the book).

I love the updates :)

Mainly because I enjoy following your thoughts, wether they are right or wrong, and imagine to myself your reaction when they come true, are smashed or something different you never thought of!

Like watching your kids at Christmas or Birthday's with presents :)

Saturnine said:

Yeah, I was leaning that way after a second viewing of this episode.  My words weren't so clear about it, but I was trying to say that "slaver" had overridden any "Night Watch" assumption, and Jorah has lost his "I'm just misunderstood" template.  He says he "fought with" the men allied with Baratheon, and I assume that means the less-brash Council and/or the Lannisters (which makes me wonder about his ex-wife).  But he WAS a slaver, and that did not endear him to Stark, so he fled Westeros.  Now, this does not discount that he may still be watchdogging the Targaryen's for someone--Varys comes to mind--but he also seems to favor a loyalty (of sorts) to Daenerys over Viserys (cripes, who wouldn't?), whether that was intended or not.

It definitely feels like Jorah has a larger story, but I'm only getting one M&M at a time...and I'm not even sure they're M&Ms.  Very much someone I want to keep watching.

Saturnine said:

Ah!  Here I was assuming something of a "shipbuilding" culture, but now I'm thinking more "privateering".  Iron Islands = Pirate Cove.  Looking forward to hearing more about the Siege of Pyke and meeting Balon...but y'all seem to think that would be NEXT year.  So I shall be patient.  At least I know how there came to be a Theon in Winterfell; that's enough for now.

Saturnine said:

Hmmmm.  You have a point.  However, I can tell a great many of the actors are wearing different hair and makeup in order to not look like themselves.  (As far as I can tell, most of the Lannisters aren't actually blonde, and I remember Harry Lloyd from "Robin Hood" (BBC) and he didn't look a thing like Viserys.)  So who's to say that the casting call sheet didn't specifically call out a feature ("steel eyes") for the agents to pool from?  Or that Gendry's actor isn't sporting contact lenses?  The makeup crew so far have been doing spectacularly; if the creators wanted to drop a physical hint, I totally believe they could.

That said, I'm inclined to believe that in this case, my shot was quite wild.   You calling it out makes me wonder what the creators "got wrong" about Gendry (and anyone else), but it also makes me wonder how tight your grip is to the images you've had in your head for years.  It's easy to have issues about a horrible miscast (say, Will Smith as James West in Wild Wild West), but it takes a certain vehemence to despise, say, Hugh Jackman for being "too tall" for Wolverine.  So may I ask, how hardcore do you feel about the appearance of the show versus the descriptions of G.R.R. Martin?

Carnivean said:

That, of course, would be the whole point.    Thanks!

jgt7771 said:

Oh, I'm quite liberal about the looks, really, as long as they capture the essence of the character, and I think they've assembled a wonderful cast so far (except for Joffrey who looks too much like a twerp, even though he is one). There is one thing that I cannot talk about that has bothered me and other people which is a look-related story-point that is not as explicit in the adaptation, but I'm not losing sleep over that, either.

As for Jorah fighting for/with Baratheon, he actually earned his knighthood during the Greyjoy rebellion for his valour. (I mention this only because I don't think they'll delve that deeply into his personal history in the show).

Saturnine said:

Meaning that Joffrey as a character actually IS a twerp, but he's supposed to look more "Tiger Beat"?  More like a miniature version of Jaime, whom, after replacing his armor with a polo shirt, would be a classic modern d-bag?

Saturnine said:

I have no real choice but to leave that alone, but my curiosity is getting the better of me: is this an irrevocable alteration?  Any way, somewhere down the road, the creators could course-correct to match?  Is it perhaps a marginal story-point that the show could abandon?  (Feel free to ignore me if I should just shut up and walk away.)

jgt7771 said:

Exactly. ;)

As for the plot point, I think I'm going to leave that alone because I'm not sure what the show plans to do with it exactly. Again, it's not that big a deal because while they cannot really alter the choice they've made, they can still make the same point with the visual choices they've made, it's just that it's a much stronger point in the book. Don't worry too much about it - it's simply that a lot of fans got upset because in the book a certain physical feature is really remarked upon a lot, and it's not as striking/explicit in the adaptation, but it's still there.

jgt7771 -

Just want to mention that I, too, really dig your posts. Please keep it up. You should have a blog.

Jgt, where's your weekly write-up? Very curious to hear your thoughts on the latest episode :D

Sorry...but it's the end of the TV season, and I foolishly watch other shows.  DVR Overload needed addressing...

Holy crap! They actually DID put them dragon skulls in the basement!    (Coooool.)

Lots of “holy crap” moments this week, some of a relevatory nature, others just shocking. Where to start…

Stark is rapidly wearing out his welcome. Robert’s got a thorn in his paw named Targaryen, and Stark ain’t willing to pull it out, and that just makes Robert all sore. I like how they can joke together when it doesn’t matter (“You’re too fat for your armor.”), but it bugs me when Robert pulls the King Card and starts pushing Stark around. Even worse when all his little cronies play along. Any time I’ve seen these twits agree on anything, it’s always against Stark (which probably means he SHOULD be the Hand).

Although…I have to admit that maybe Robert has a point, and the Targaryens probably should be removed. But I can only say that from my view as the omniscient audience, knowing that there actually are "dragon sympathizers”, lending credence to the possibility of a plan to get the Dothraki across the Narrow Sea. (Horseboats?) It would certainly help if Robert weren’t RANTING about it. Too late. Stark’s done.

Now he’s a puppy in a nest of vipers, and not enough time to get out. (Shouldn’t have brought all of his daughters.) And then comes Baelish, AGAIN. Littlefinger always seems to be EVERYWHERE. (Even moreso than Varys, beating him at his own Spy Game.) So Robert’s just dropping bastards all over the place. Still wondering what that means for Joffrey, and if that’s why Arryn was killed.

Once Jaime showed up, I knew it was gonna get bad. Confrontations like this don’t end welHOLY CRAP!!! Daaaaaamn. Absolute jaw-dropper. Shoot, I really liked Jory. I have a wee bit more respect for Jaime for knocking out the guard that stabbed Stark in the leg, as it would seem that he does hold some honor for the Duel, even though I find swordplay in Westeros to have no rules: win or die. (Maybe that’s just for opponents you consider beneath you.) I actually thought that knight KILLED Stark! Clever camera angle, or just being mean to me? (Probably both.) Eddard’s gonna have a limp for a while, not to mention I doubt he can make it home like that.

It would seem that Littlefinger was right: the Hound and the Mountain do NOT get along.  But it was REALLY surprising to see the Hound kneel IMMEDIATELY after the King bellowed, at the risk of the Mountain taking his head off.  Suddenly, not quite as sure how I feel about the Hound.

Ooo! The Eyrie made the credits! (I dug crossing "The Bite"!) Seems like something of an accident: Catelyn really WAS going home, but now that she has Tyrion, she’s changed her mind? I’m not sure it was clear that Tyrion was prime suspect for Arryn’s death; did I miss that? Tyrion’s doing his best to remain Tyrion (thoroughly enjoyed his behavior through the tribal raid, especially the shield bash), but he’s not thrilled at all for going before Lysa.

……….oh my. And who could blame him? Lysa is so very very OFF HER ROCKER; I’m pretty sure that once they have all their teeth, you should stop breastfeeding them. In front of everyone. (Holy crap! You have to admire actors who will “go there”.) Love how enemies Tyrion and Catelyn shared a glance of “Oh wow, really?” Lysa’s boy is just…frightening.

LUUUV the Eyrie’s dungeon!!! “Go on. Escape. Dare you.” Not only did that save on masonry subcontracting, but all those cells have a NASTY draft for their deserving occupants. For that matter, the Eyrie itself is one intimidating fortress: it’s simply impossible to effectively siege. (Rockclimbers?)

Quick flashes of Winterfell this week. Bran is getting back into a routine, reciting House dogma—the Greyjoys’ “We do not sow,” implies a great deal of reaping others, eh?—and hinting at a future of a horsebowman. And helloooooooo Ros. A gratuitous scene to be sure, but yet another knock to Theon’s ego from Tyrion, albeit indirectly.

Arya is so much fun to watch. She moves so smoothly between brash assertiveness (telling those gate guards off) to pouty anxiety (“I-I was chasing a cat.”). She’s trying so hard to be what she wants to be that she's bound to be constantly in trouble. Intriguing that she can pass so easily for a boy (*cough* Joan of Arc *cough* Mulan *cough* Eowyn).

Varys. Just a weasel of a man (if you can even call him a man). For a second, I thought that maybe his pendulum was swinging back towards good when he (apparently) decided Eddard was now trustworthy enough to confirm that Arryn WAS murdered. He even knew the name of the damn poison! And not one scene later, Arya catches this d-bag riding the Targaryen Underground Pipeline with Illyrio!!! I was inclined to believe Jorah that nobody really gave a crap about the Targaryens anymore, but I suppose that was just being naïve. Certainly I’m no big fan of Baratheon either, but trying to reinstall Viserys is just putting the Mad King back on the throne.

“The Lion and the Wolf will be at each other’s throats.” Lannisters and Starks…sure, that’s easy to see. But now Drogo doesn’t want to move without his son safely born, which might take too long, but assassinating Stark won’t help…wait, WHAT?!? That’s it: Varys is on the craplist. And Illyrio. And probably Jorah. I sense I am going to have real trouble on a personal level when I’m probably going to be forced to start disliking the nifty Daenerys.

Is this why Tyrion was framed?  It doesn't make sense that Jaime would do it, since he's so keen on getting Tyrion back...but is that part of it?  Leaving Tyrion out to dry (and die silent) to cover for the Arryn murder?  Or is it the Targaryen stooges, trying to start a civil war between the Starks and the Lannisters?  Or is it Theon, who just thinks Tyrion is a jerk?  I sound like a conspiracy nut...except I'm pretty sure there's a conspiracy!

Okay, I’m a pretty open-minded guy, with my own collection of fetishes, but I really don’t need to see guys shaving. Or guys shaving other guys. My electro-shocked head was spinning here: Renly’s gay? The prettyboy knight over whom Sansa is swooning is gay? (Poor Sansa. She’s beautiful, and every boy she meets has no interest in her!) There’s another Baratheon brother? ARE THEY DOING WHAT I THINK THEY’RE DOING? “What, incest is no problem, but…” Look, between that and the creepy breastfeeding…can I just see the Ros scene again please?

Finally, my favorite scene of the night: Robert and Cersei being quietly honest with each other. FINALLY something to appreciate Robert for. Politically, Robert needed a queen, but he lost his first (and ONLY) choice, and he’s never been able to cope with that. Not quite clear, but Cersei at least enjoyed Robert’s presence (if not his power, although I wonder how much of that was her father back then), but his inability to love her ruined them. Possibly the years of that ruined her. And they lost their first son? Bet that was ugly.

This is the first time Robert’s felt TRAGIC. I don’t think he really feels like being King is worth anything; it’s just an accident as a result of taking out the Targaryens. He’s so sad and alone inside, and he hides from it by getting wasted and boning anything pretty. Which makes his queen harder and cruel (and in love with her own brother). What a mess…and a powder keg.

Cheers, jgt.

My favorite scene from the episode was also the scene between Cersei and Robert (curiously enough, a scene that is not in the book).

And in the books, Renly is not such a wimp. I found that an irritating change in the adaptation.

jgt7771 said:

Fun fact that wasn't obvious in the tv show: The floors of the sky cells, as they are called, have a slight angle to them for additional psychological fun ("Oh noes, I'm gonna roll off while I sleep!")

Saturnine said:

Genius.  Pure twisted genius.  One of the biggest "Wow, that's so elegantly simple, I can't believe no one ever thought of that before!" I've ever had.  If I get nothing else from G.R.R. Martin's crowded head, that concept is eternal to me now.