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The Lord of the Rings: The Card Game
Gather your heroes and face the coming darkness!
Moderator: ffgjoshFFGMarkGeckoThe Spaniard Topics: 2421 | Posts: 29529
Tolkienology Chapter 2: Of loose ends and mysteries
Published on 27 February 2012 - 07:34:11
Page 3 of 3 (35 messages) « First page... 2 3
Reply #31 | Published on 03 March 2012 - 11:06:14

I'm with lleimmoen regarding Tom Bombadil. I don't think him being Aulë. As the creator of Dwarves, it doesn't make much sense to me that being in Endor watching first hand what happens there, he should have chosen another place to live but the Old Forest, which allows him rare contact with his creations.

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Reply #32 | Published on 03 March 2012 - 13:01:01

still.....the valar couldnt put much into the 3rd age- hence the istari- things had changed, and if he is aule (which i agree there are still far too many flaws in this theory) then it would explain gandalf going to 'report' back to him after saurons downfall- though of course gandalf was the servant of manwe- not aule

i still think that we cant really use the counter-argument of 'he doesnt resemble (insert vala here)'. i mean who exactly would that resemble?- who choses to be such as ridiculous character unlesss its purely for diguise? i dont think that Tom as we saw him was anything like the real Tom if he 'uncovered' himself.

i think its the same thing with gandalf appearing as an old man in one place, and appearing as a powerful wizard whilst battling the balrog. however we cant really ever see tom uncovered as he cant fight evil directly, apart from in his own 'bounds' with old man willow and the barrow wights

 

Reply #33 | Published on 03 March 2012 - 21:28:23
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That was great rich, thank you for writing!

I have always wondered about the nature of magical power in Tolkien's universe.  We occasionally get a raw display of power -- a blinding flash of light, a crack of lightning, a conjured storm.  Most of the time, however, power seems subtle and hidden.  It's been awhile since I've read the books, but from memory, there is no grand display of power when Gandalf confronts the Balrog.  The Balrog is defeated through cunning trickery -- Gandalf strikes not at the demon, but at the bridge. 

I remember really enjoying the film where trolls burst through the gates of Minas Tirith.  Gandalf downs a troll with a single strike from his cane, and it is neither noted by any characters, dwelt upon (it is brief and easy to miss), or even especially highlighted by the cinematography (the focus of this scene is not "the death of a troll" or "the power of Gandalf").

This brings me to Tom.  I don't know that I like the theories of Tom as either Valar or Maiar, but it does not strike me as incongruent to say that Sauron could defeat Tom.  It would be done through strength of armies and not the might of Sauron alone.  The implication is that Tom would be the last thing standing in all of Middle Earth, I think, but he too would not be able to, alone, withstand the might of Mordor.  Tom has no army (nor interest in any).  The question is: how does magical power work?  Would Tom really be able to wave his hand and eradicate an army?  If so, then any theory that Tom (a Valar) could be defeated by Sauron would fall apart.  If power is more subtle than that, the theory seems less challenged.

 

Without Signature
Reply #34 | Published on 04 March 2012 - 05:12:22
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Tom was successful in preventing the Witch-king's army from entering the area after Angmar had defeated Cardolan. It is not certain that it was the intention of the Witch-king's army to enter the woods but it would perhaps be right to assume that the intention was to eradicate the surviving Dúnedain that took hiding in the Old Forest under Tom Bombadil's protection.

Reply #35 | Published on 04 March 2012 - 07:34:46

thank you grandspleen

i think another point is that if sauron had won the war and his armies taken over the earth, i do not think tom would have even tried to fend off the orcs if/ when they came to the old forest. there would have been nothing left for him in middle earth to fight for (in a grander sense), so i think he would have departed back to the undying lands, if indeed that is where he came from.

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