ak-73 said:

I say i don't as i don't know all the details but will let him know about that one but could have others already planned

Pulling from other threads:

An Inquisitor or the like gives a battle brother an order that compromises his feeling of personal honor- killing a herdsman's flock of xeno animals on his farm becuase he wasn't cooperative enough with the Inquisitor's questions.

Or the group is forced into a temporary alliance with some Eldar, and during the negotiation of the alliance, the Eldar, knowing marines to be caught up in personal honor, requires the squad leader to swear an oath cementing the alliance, and in that oath it defines the terms and the ways in which the alliance can be terminated.  How does the negotiation play out?

Then at the end of the adventure, before the alliance has been dissolved (but close to that point) the Eldar has secured safe passage out of the system for his (or her) army as part of the deal.  The Inquisitor orders the KT to kill the Eldar commander and take out their command ship, which will allow the inbound Imperial Navy ships to mop up the disorganized remainder.  But the mission leader has sworn an oath that lets the Eldar get away.

Do they obey the command and kill the Eldar (which will probably end up killing some more humans in the near future anyhow) or do they uphold their promises, preparing themselves to face the Eldar force on other terms?  Do they come up with some other way to deal with them that doesn't violate their oaths?

4 words:

L-E-G-I-O-N O-F T-H-E D-A-M-N-E-D.

So many ideas spring to mind. Anyone wanting to stat them (although it might deserve a thread of its own)?

Alex

The PCs are caught up on an alien world and need to provide food to others - an accompanying Inquisitor, for example. Or a fledgling Imperial village that is starving. Time to make use of that Survival skill, Astartes.

Alex

ak-73 said:

I've been inclined to write them up for a little while now. I may give it a try this evening...

N0-1_H3r3 said:

How will you handle their invul save? Like a force field? That's the simple answer. Regeneration? Might work but that's a bit creative license. Very Unnatural Toughness?

Alex

ak-73 said:

I've got something in mind, but I'm not going to spoil it. Once the ideas are in place, it won't take me long to do the write-up and post it.

N0-1_H3r3 said:

Inspiration struck - how about protected by warp fire, burning away everything that hits. Also Vengeance rounds with Flame quality.

Alex

Right, given that each appearance of the Legion of the Damned in the rules has been different (in Codex: Ultramarines, they're just Fearless, Fear-causing Veteran Space Marines... later versions gained the 'appear from thin air' quirk, leading to the current version which is heavily supernatural), I've put together something I feel to be reasonable. I can't actually find my copy of Codex: Space Marines, so I'm going from memory on a few things, and thus a couple of things might be incorrect... they've very much a spur-of-the-moment rough job.

Now, enough of my pre-emptive excuses...

Damned Legionnaire (Elite)
WS BS S T Ag Int Per WP Fel
55 55 55(12) 55(10) 50 50 50 60 50

Movement: 6/12/18/36; Wounds: 30

Skills: Awareness (Per) +10, Climb (S), Dodge (Ag) +10, Common Lore (Adeptus Astartes) (Int), Common Lore (Imperium) (Int), Common Lore (War) (Int), Concealment (Ag), Drive (Ground Vehicle) (Ag), Forbidden Lore (Warp) (Int) +10, Intimidate (S) +20, Literacy (Int), Navigation (Surface) (Int), Scholastic Lore (Codex Astartes) (Int), Silent Move (Ag) +20, Speak Language (Low Gothic) (Int), Speak Language (High Gothic) (Int), Tactics (Assault Doctrine) (Int) +20, Tracking (Int)

Talents: Ambidextrous, Astartes Weapon Training, Bulging Biceps, Crushing Blow, Duty Unto Death, Hatred (Chaos Space Marines, Daemons, Mutants, Xenos, Heretics), Lightning Attack, Lightning Reflexes, Mighty Shot, Strong Minded, Swift Attack, , Heightened Senses (Hearing, Sight), Killing Strike, Nerves of Steel, Quick Draw, Resistance (Psychic Powers), True Grit, Unarmed Master

Traits: Astartes Implants, Auto-stabilised, Fear (3), From Beyond, Incorporeal, The Stuff of Nightmares, Undying, Unnatural Strength (x2), Unnatural Toughness (x2)

Weapons: Astartes Bolt Pistol (35m; S/2/—; 2d10+7 X; Pen 5; Clip 10; Rld Full; Tearing, Reliable), Frag Grenades (36m; S/-/-; 2d10+2 X; Blast (5)), Krak Grenades (36m; S/-/-; 3d10+6 X; Pen 6), Combat Knife (1d10+14 R; Pen 2) and one of the following:
• Astartes Bolter (100m; S/2/4; 2d10+7 X; Pen 5; Clip 28; Rld Full; Tearing, Reliable)
• Flamer (30m; S/-/-; 2d10+4 E; Pen 3; Clip 6; Rld 2Full; Flame)
• Plasma Gun (90m; S/2/-; 1d10+11 E; Pen 6; Clip 20; Rld 8Full; Overheats, or 100m; S/2/-; 2d10+11 E; Pen 8; Clip 20 (3x ammo use); Rld 8Full; Overheats, Recharge)
• Meltagun (30m; S/-/-; 2d10+10 E; Pen 13; Clip 5; Rld 2Full; +1d10 damage at Short Range)
• Heavy Bolter (120m; -/-/10; 2d10+12 X; Pen 6; Clip 60; Rld 2Full; Tearing)
• Heavy Flamer (30m; S/-/-; 2d10+8 E; Pen 6; Clip 10; Rld 2 Full; Flame)
• Lascannon (300m; S/-/-; 6d10+12 E; Pen 10; Clip 5; Rld 2Full)
• Missile Launcher with Frag (250m; S/-/-; 2d10+6 X; Blast (6); Clip 1; Rld Full) and Krak (250m; S/-/-; 4d10+10 X; Pen 12; Clip 1; Rld Full) Missiles.
• Multi-Melta (60m; S/-/-; 4d10+12 E; Pen 16; Clip 10; Rld 2Full; Blast (1); +1d10 at Short Range)
• Plasma Cannon (180m; S/-/-; 3d10+12 E; Pen 8; Clip 24; Rld 2Full; Overheats, Unreliable, Blast (1)) or (190m; S/-/-; 4d10+12 E; Pen 10; Clip 8; Rld 2Full; Overheats, Recharge, Unreliable, Blast (3)) on full power.

Armour: Astartes Power Armour (Body 10, Heady 8, Arms 8, Legs 8)

Special Rules

Wrath Incarnate: The Legion of the Damned seems to be little more than a spectral manifestation of the Emperor’s Wrath. The Legion of the Damned, in spite of the Incorporeal Trait, may attack and damage enemies normally. In addition, Damned Legionnaires do not track ammunition expenditure and need never reload. However, not being entirely intangible, any attack that hits by more than two degrees of success will strike true and be able to deal damage normally.

Yeah, they're terrifying... extremely difficult to stop by conventional means, fear-causing, mobile and possessed of considerable firepower backed up by great skill. But that's the point. The Legion of the Damned turn up when the Imperium would otherwise be utterly screwed, and thus they need to be powerful enough to make a difference during those epic end-of-mission conflicts where the group have burnt a half-dozen Fate Points already and still may not triumph.

I might set them up a bit differently. But I might elaborate on that later.

In the meantime however I did think about how to stage them properly. The first thing that comes to mind is a squad manifesting and getting the PCs out of some sticky situation deus-ex machina style. But that's not very original.

Proper staging should (as a minimum, more elaborate stuff is thinkable) include this:

a) Not just a standard squad of LotD. That comes across to players as "Ah, now it's the LotD's turn to make their appearance in DW." It's too simple. My suggestion would be a more unusual sight - like a LotD Landspeeder (yeah!). Something like that.
b) No, boxing player's out of s**t. Or rather it should look like that initially: the players are trying to help some guards but find their position to be unmaintainable nonetheless due to enemy reenforcements. The LotD do appear at a critical moment and save the day. The players think "Ah, standard appearance." But in truth the LotD hasn't just appeared to keep them alive. Instead they leave behind a clue for the KT to follow which leads to a much greater danger (unknown so far to the KT) and that is why they in truth appeared to begin with.

Alex

PS Minor note: strictly speaking the LotD are anything but 'Undying.' Quite the contrary. I can see why you have given them that trait though. :-)

ak-73 said:

Depends on the interpretation, though I actually decided to give them The Stuff of Nightmares instead, and just forgot to remove the now-superfluous Undying.

Personally, I've never been sold on the idea that the Legion of the Damned are just the Fire Hawks with a warp-based makeover (which I don't think has ever been more than implied anyway). It just seemed too clean and too simple, and robbed the entire idea of its mystery (it also technically limits Legion of the Damned appearances to the last 40 or so years of the 41st Millennium, and thus prevents their use in the default Deathwatch setting). I'd sooner see them retain the mystery and uncertainty of their nature...

N0-1_H3r3 said:

I noticed. Anyway, I have a slightly different interpretation in mind (and actually, given the nature of the 40K universe both might be true at the same time). As I imagine them, they can phase out of the warp. Which takes one transitionary turn in which they are incorporeal. In their manifest form they are in the material world (not corporeal) but not really stable either. They flicker between a ghost-like state and having substance, having some control over it though.

It's the only way I can envision them surviving a volcano cannon attack. I guess your version has more of a (physical) undead flavour while I see them more as ghosts.

Alex

PS Normally I dislike time travel but in the case of the illustrous Fire Hawks, I'd be willing to settle for that explanation. Not that the players ever need to know. Nor would they need to know that they can't do it reliably (or without great risks). Just my personal rationale - for the players they are just some helpful spectres.

PPS Another scenario: in some mission the LotD show up and start to fight the players (DW vs LotD - woohoo!). You need to give the players an edge or it might be a very difficult fight. If they survive, the impicit goal for the players is to realize that what they are about to do is something that will bring great ruin. Smart players will ask themselves "Why are they attacking us? They must have a good reason." That assumes the players or PCs know the LotD are "good guys."

ak-73 said:

I noticed. Anyway, I have a slightly different interpretation in mind (and actually, given the nature of the 40K universe both might be true at the same time). As I imagine them, they can phase out of the warp. Which takes one transitionary turn in which they are incorporeal. In their manifest form they are in the material world (not corporeal) but not really stable either. They flicker between a ghost-like state and having substance, having some control over it though.

So, the Phase trait, then. I considered that, but went for full-blown Incorporeal and a special rule that let them attack in spite of it. The "Ghosts of long-dead Astartes" depiction from one of the Ultramarines novels springs to mind. They're sort of like the Balrog, IMO - more akin to creatures of fire and darkness than anything tangible, in the shape of the Astartes and with all their might.

Okay, here is my version. It is not fully thought through yet but just finished. Allow me to make some remarks:

1. I did decrease some of the stats in order to avoid any chance of giving a Mary Sue impression and because I think the edge of the LOTD comes from its supernatural abilties. Otherwise they are not too different from normal Marines. Low Ag because if want them to be more of the slow kind, low Fel because their appearance isn't too likable.
2. No running, as per 40K
3. Shortened the profile and all-in-all minor changes to skills only, all of them debatable, nothing really important in my mind. Talents: again, I prefer them to not really be much better than regular Marines. Swift attack because of 40K A2. Combat Formation because of 40K I4. TWW they should have for bolt pistol/chainsword combo. Crack Shot/Crippling Strike for a nasty surprise should they ever critically hit someone.
4. Traits: I have tried to emulate the 40K Invul save by making them have a quasi-Force Field per their unique trait. Int+10/(100-WP) are the de facto Force Field ratings (unless it's a delayed attack striking in the right moment that the Legionnaire is not aware of or a psy attack). This is the part least thought through. It makes the LotD vulnerable to clever tactics though. Not entirely made up about this.
5. New ammo: it's based on the LOTD description in the Codex. Might be overpowered, alternatively ditch the entire Vengeance rounds part and just make them cause their victims to be on fire.
6. I ditched all the hatred talents. I see the LOTD more as collected, solemn fighters. If you want similar bonuses though, I'd rather recommend the Slayer of Daemons, etc line of talents.
7. Number of wounds is debatable, I have not thought it through fully.

In short - if a DW KT was to fight a LOTD (half-)squad, the DW's edge should be the high-tech gear, etc. The LOTD's edge should be it's supernatural abilties.

So without even further ado:

Damned Legionnaire (Elite)
 

WS 55
BS 55
S 55 (12)
T 50 (10)
Ag 30
Int 45
Per 50
WP 60
Fel 20
(this layout makes for better reading here)

Movement: 4/8/-/-; Wounds: 30

Skills: Astartes Skills, modified in the following manner: add/replace with Forbidden Lore (Warp) (Int) +20, Intimidate (S) +20, Silent Move (Ag) +10, Tactics (Assault Doctrine) (Int) +20 

Talents: Astartes Talents, modified in the following manner: add Combat Formation, Crack Shot, Crippling Strike, Swift Attack, Two-Weapon Wielder(Ballistic), Two-Weapon Wielder(Melee)

Traits: Astartes Implants, Auto-stabilised, Fear (2), From Beyond, Indomitable(new), Spectre from the Warp(new), The Stuff of Nightmares (special: holy attacks do no damage, daemonic attacks do wound), Unnatural Strength (x2), Unnatural Toughness (x2)

Weapons: Astartes Bolt Pistol (35m; S/2/—; 2d10+7 X; Pen 5; Clip 10; Rld Full; Tearing, Reliable), Frag Grenades (36m; S/-/-; 2d10+2 X; Blast (5)), Krak Grenades (36m; S/-/-; 3d10+6 X; Pen 6), Combat Knife (1d10+14 R; Pen 2) and one of the following:
• Astartes Bolter (100m; S/2/4; 2d10+7 X; Pen 5; Clip 28; Rld Full; Tearing, Reliable)
• Flamer (30m; S/-/-; 2d10+4 E; Pen 3; Clip 6; Rld 2Full; Flame)
• Plasma Gun (90m; S/2/-; 1d10+11 E; Pen 6; Clip 20; Rld 8Full; Overheats, or 100m; S/2/-; 2d10+11 E; Pen 8; Clip 20 (3x ammo use); Rld 8Full; Overheats, Recharge)
• Meltagun (30m; S/-/-; 2d10+10 E; Pen 13; Clip 5; Rld 2Full; +1d10 damage at Short Range)
• Heavy Bolter (120m; -/-/10; 2d10+12 X; Pen 6; Clip 60; Rld 2Full; Tearing)
• Heavy Flamer (30m; S/-/-; 2d10+8 E; Pen 6; Clip 10; Rld 2 Full; Flame)
• Lascannon (300m; S/-/-; 6d10+12 E; Pen 10; Clip 5; Rld 2Full)
• Missile Launcher with Frag (250m; S/-/-; 2d10+6 X; Blast (6); Clip 1; Rld Full) and Krak (250m; S/-/-; 4d10+10 X; Pen 12; Clip 1; Rld Full) Missiles.
• Multi-Melta (60m; S/-/-; 4d10+12 E; Pen 16; Clip 10; Rld 2Full; Blast (1); +1d10 at Short Range)
• Plasma Cannon (180m; S/-/-; 3d10+12 E; Pen 8; Clip 24; Rld 2Full; Overheats, Unreliable, Blast (1)) or (190m; S/-/-; 4d10+12 E; Pen 10; Clip 8; Rld 2Full; Overheats, Recharge, Unreliable, Blast (3)) on full power.

Armour: Astartes Power Armour (Body 10, Heady 8, Arms 8, Legs 8)

Special Rules

Indomitable(new): The Legionnaire cannot be possessed, mind-controlled or otherwise mind-influenced through warp-based powers, including the reading of thoughts. 

Spectre from the Warp(new): The Legion of the Damned marines are travellers between the Warp the real world.
• Normally they exist only in the Warp Form where they can be detected with Psyniscience. Transitioning into the real world or back costs a Free Action and takes 1 full turn during which the Legionnaire has the Incorporeal Trait.

• In the Manifest Form the Legionnaire is a semi-corporeal being. He flickers between physical and incorporeal state and only due to an act of will he can persist as a real world entity. When it is the Legionnaire's turn and he is in Manifest Form he can act as if a normal Marine in the flesh. He can also evade attacks against him that he is aware of by phasing out at a blink of an eye by spending his Reaction and succeeding an Intelligence+10 test. If he succeeds, he counts against that attack as Incorporeal. When it is not the Legionnaire's turn, he can be assumed to be flickering. For every attack that hits, the Legionnaire must make a Willpower+0 test. If he fails(!) it, the Legionnaire has shifted out of the physical realm and counts as Incorporeal against the attack.

Warp Bolts(new): The Legionnaire's bolt weapons shoot ammunition that is not from this world. In game terms they count as Vengeance rounds without a chance for malfunction. For each attack that hits, the victim must pass an Agility test or be put on fire.

So, please let me know what you think of it.

Alex

Another idea: false primarch. These two words alone should be able to fire up your imagination, GMs.

Alex