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Kanluwen said:
NO! Do not mention those two novels as any form of 'reference material', ever. EVER. C.S. Goto is a hackjob author who makes Stephanie Meyer look like Shakespeare in comparison.
Only refering to the missions the Deathwatch was on, not the caliber or lack their of, of the writer. I agree with you completely in regards to his writing, it's like making love to a roll of sand paper. It just gives you examples of what the Deathwatch can be sent to do.
Without Signature
aeonsin said:
Kanluwen said:
NO! Do not mention those two novels as any form of 'reference material', ever. EVER. C.S. Goto is a hackjob author who makes Stephanie Meyer look like Shakespeare in comparison.
Only refering to the missions the Deathwatch was on, not the caliber or lack their of, of the writer. I agree with you completely in regards to his writing, it's like making love to a roll of sand paper. It just gives you examples of what the Deathwatch can be sent to do.
No, it's really not. Goto has a hard-on for the Eldar, and was obsessed with them in a manner that, again, makes Stephanie Meyer look normal. That's why I pretend those books never existed.
That and Falcon/Land Raider/Razorback/Landrazor surfing.
Faith is an armour harder than any metal, but more delicate than any flower.
@aeonsin
Well, I can´t speak badly for G.S. Goto myself (I was and I realy am horrified by all the stuff is written on the net about him), as I only read one his suprisingly great story (The Tower), but I would stick with other great 40k novel portrayals of Deathwatch, namely Xenos from Eisenhorn Omnibus by Dan Abnett, Innocence Proves Nothing by Sandy Mitchel and Headhunted short story published in Heroes of the Space Marines by Steve Parker.
Mr. Parker, by the way, will have another DW story (Exhumed) published in Legends of the Space Marines and there is rumour that he could be writing whole Deathwatch novel (serie...), coincidently around the time of DW RPG starting its career.
The first line of the Malus Codicium:
'Don't *&@$ with Commissar Yarrick,'
Hmmm... a Scourge the Heretic style tie-in with the Deathwatch RPG would be good if they get a decent author to do it, and give us more Deathwatch-centered stuff than Goto's slightly-less-sucky-than-Dan-Brown literary discharge and a few short stories.
I've got a pretty high tolerance for the things that make books mediocre, and have enjoyed some books that have been labelled as pretty bad. I love the novelisation of Fire Warrior (it shows very well how to make a decent book out of a horribly bad game, even if there are bits where you can feel Simon Spurrier straining against the source material), I managed to make it all the way through Ben Counter's Battle for the Abyss (IMO, his worst book and certainly the worst Horus Heresy book) and James Swallow's first two Blood Angel books without utterly despising either author afterward.
But CS Goto managed, with Warrior Brood, to dethrone The Old Man and the Sea as the worst book I'd ever read, not just for its own horribleness, but for confirming that it wasn't just the constraints of novelization that made Dawn of War suck. Not even Saint Augustine's interminable whinging about how unworthy he was could do that. Evidence suggests that Dan Brown is worse than Mr. Goto, but as I've no desire to read his stuff, CS Goto shall remain as the worst author I've read.
"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own!" -Adam Savage, Mythbusters
Kanluwen said:
No, it's really not. Goto has a hard-on for the Eldar, and was obsessed with them (...)
Hey, there's nothing wrong with that! 
Burn the heretic! Kill the mutant! Purge the unclean!
The Laughing God said:
Kanluwen said:
No, it's really not. Goto has a hard-on for the Eldar, and was obsessed with them (...)
Hey, there's nothing wrong with that!
Except for the fact that his supposed love for the Eldar pretty much ended up with them charging mindlessly into battle, worshipping Slaanesh, and warring amongst themselves.
If that's what he does for the cultures he likes, then I'd hate to see what he does to the cultures he dislikes...
Nathan 'N0-1_H3r3' Dowdell
Writing Credits so far: Into the Storm, Edge of the Abyss, Battlefleet Koronus, Black Crusade Core Rulebook, Hostile Acquisitions, First Founding, The Jericho Reach, The Soul Reaver, Only War Core Rulebook, The Navis Primer & Ark of Lost Souls
Disclaimer: Any & all comments I make on these forums are my own opinion, not those of Fantasy Flight Games. My comments & rules suggestions should not be taken as official, are for all intents & purposes nothing more than the words of a devoted fan & long-time member of this community.
A collection of my unofficial supplements can be found here.
Kanluwen said:
The Hobo Hunter said:
While they are the Chamber Militant of the Ordo Xenos and thus dedicated to anti-xenos campaigns, it would be well within their duty to take on other enemies of mankind.
Grey Knights don't let waves of heretics get past them while they stop to call up the Sisters of Battle to do it for them, and neither would Deathwatch.
Well of course the Grey Knights wouldn't let waves of heretics get past them...most of the time when the Grey Knights are called in, those heretics are calling in Daemons or actively fighting alongside Daemons.
Which turns it from an Ordos Hereticus matter to Ordos Malleus. That's kind of the issue with the overlap between Hereticus/Malleus. While in their early stages, a Cult or a band of heretics that are attempting to make contact with their masters in the Warp, it's a pretty clear-cut Hereticus matter. I mean, by the time we have Daemons running around chopping people to bits, there's no real reason to argue "Well, these heretics are our targets and you Grey Knights take out the Daemons. Because that's what we specialize in" if one Ordos or another isn't present.
With the Ordos Xenos it's a bit of a different ballgame. There's no real overlap, outside of the odd Xenos cult or Rogue Trader making contact with Xenos and opening trade routes.
The Cold Trade, Slaugth/Amaranthine syndicate, enslavers, genestealers and beast cults of solomon beg to differ, along with the logicians invoved with the creation of the hollow men of Sinophia Magna, beast house, Simulacra, employers of kroot mercs, rogue traders who stray into forbidden star systems and others to numerous to mention.
Overlap between the work of the Ordo Hereticus and Ordo Xenos is every bit as common as between the Ordo Hereticus and Ordo Malleus, perhapes even more so. It is easy to imagain even overlap between the Ordo Xenos and Ordo Malleus.
Death Watch: It's like Beowulf with boltguns
zombieneighbours said:
Kanluwen said:
The Hobo Hunter said:
While they are the Chamber Militant of the Ordo Xenos and thus dedicated to anti-xenos campaigns, it would be well within their duty to take on other enemies of mankind.
Grey Knights don't let waves of heretics get past them while they stop to call up the Sisters of Battle to do it for them, and neither would Deathwatch.
Well of course the Grey Knights wouldn't let waves of heretics get past them...most of the time when the Grey Knights are called in, those heretics are calling in Daemons or actively fighting alongside Daemons.
Which turns it from an Ordos Hereticus matter to Ordos Malleus. That's kind of the issue with the overlap between Hereticus/Malleus. While in their early stages, a Cult or a band of heretics that are attempting to make contact with their masters in the Warp, it's a pretty clear-cut Hereticus matter. I mean, by the time we have Daemons running around chopping people to bits, there's no real reason to argue "Well, these heretics are our targets and you Grey Knights take out the Daemons. Because that's what we specialize in" if one Ordos or another isn't present.
With the Ordos Xenos it's a bit of a different ballgame. There's no real overlap, outside of the odd Xenos cult or Rogue Trader making contact with Xenos and opening trade routes.
The Cold Trade, Slaugth/Amaranthine syndicate, enslavers, genestealers and beast cults of solomon beg to differ, along with the logicians invoved with the creation of the hollow men of Sinophia Magna, beast house, Simulacra, employers of kroot mercs, rogue traders who stray into forbidden star systems and others to numerous to mention.
Overlap between the work of the Ordo Hereticus and Ordo Xenos is every bit as common as between the Ordo Hereticus and Ordo Malleus, perhapes even more so. It is easy to imagain even overlap between the Ordo Xenos and Ordo Malleus.
Y'vath perhaps? They can be the only warp worshipin' xenos out there....
Their are almost certainly hundereds of damned Xeno's races, dabbling with the warp. To the mind set of the Monodominant faction, the eldar might well be one of them :D
Death Watch: It's like Beowulf with boltguns
A short remark re the OT: Eisenhorn was Ordo Xenos (Ravenor too), yet spent most his time battling daemons. Not everything Abnett writes is canon, no, but in this case he's still onto something. An inquisitor's Ordo alignment won't necessarily restrict him to only combat a single threat against the Imperium/humanity. As I see it, it determines his loyalties (seeing as he most likely served under a master belonging to the same order) and general inclination/focus. And as has been stated elsewhere here, xeno influence and tech may be found in many places.
Sammail said:
A short remark re the OT: Eisenhorn was Ordo Xenos (Ravenor too), yet spent most his time battling daemons. Not everything Abnett writes is canon, no, but in this case he's still onto something. An inquisitor's Ordo alignment won't necessarily restrict him to only combat a single threat against the Imperium/humanity. As I see it, it determines his loyalties (seeing as he most likely served under a master belonging to the same order) and general inclination/focus. And as has been stated elsewhere here, xeno influence and tech may be found in many places.
I've struggled with this Ordo alignment too in my Dark Heresy campaign. I've never liked the idea that you had to chose for a certain Ordo and from then on your missions and adventures would predominantly be related to this Ordo. I like my acolytes - and my Space Marines - to face heretics, aliens and daemons in random order :)
Burn the heretic! Kill the mutant! Purge the unclean!
The Laughing God said:
Sammail said:
A short remark re the OT: Eisenhorn was Ordo Xenos (Ravenor too), yet spent most his time battling daemons. Not everything Abnett writes is canon, no, but in this case he's still onto something. An inquisitor's Ordo alignment won't necessarily restrict him to only combat a single threat against the Imperium/humanity. As I see it, it determines his loyalties (seeing as he most likely served under a master belonging to the same order) and general inclination/focus. And as has been stated elsewhere here, xeno influence and tech may be found in many places.
I've struggled with this Ordo alignment too in my Dark Heresy campaign. I've never liked the idea that you had to chose for a certain Ordo and from then on your missions and adventures would predominantly be related to this Ordo. I like my acolytes - and my Space Marines - to face heretics, aliens and daemons in random order :)
In Dark Heresy there really isn't any reason to do so, and many Inquisitors are, in fact, generalists. But Deathwatch? That's a bit different. You really have to get creative to pull it off. That or you can simply ignore the lore if you like.
Death is the only truth.
The death watch, as currently detailed, are focused Xenos hunters, that is their job plain and simple. If the inquisition knows that the problem is demonic or heretical, they arn't going to call in the death watch.
That doesn't however mean that the death watch never end up fighting those challanges. The Ordo Xenos can easily attack what they think is a xeno-tech smuggling ring, using a death watch kill team team, only to discover that the kill team is fighting a logician cell and that the advanced tech was in fact forbidden archiatech. enslavour infestation? Oh shit is really a demonic incursion.
Add to that the occasions when the kill team is the only resource that can deploy in time to save an entire planet. Under such situations, who is to say that an ordo Xeno's inquisitor with a more pragmatic (aka radical) out look wouldn't use the kill team to stand against a chaos cult, even if it isn't part of their remit.
All that said, i wouldn't be at all surprise if death watch didn't contain infomation on play as non-death watch marines, who are allied with the various ordo, and possibly even gray knights(though i consider this considerably less likely.)
[minirant] As a small aside, am I the only one who really hates setting material being refered to as lore. I first noticed setting details being called 'lore' as part of the 4ed DnDs onwards march to devorce 4e from any form of connection between setting and rules, where the term seems to have been used to push an even greater wedge between narrative and game. [/minirant]
Death Watch: It's like Beowulf with boltguns
zombieneighbours said:
[minirant] As a small aside, am I the only one who really hates setting material being refered to as lore. I first noticed setting details being called 'lore' as part of the 4ed DnDs onwards march to devorce 4e from any form of connection between setting and rules, where the term seems to have been used to push an even greater wedge between narrative and game. [/minirant]
What term would you prefer? Fluff? Background?
It's just a word.
Death is the only truth.
Setting is my personal choice.
Background is okay, but a definate second choice.
Words have power, when you calling a setting, 'fluff' your equating it to being insubstantial and unimportant.
While lore doesn't have the same linguistic baggage, it does have the connection, atleast in my mind with the hatchet job Wizards did on the realms.
Death Watch: It's like Beowulf with boltguns
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