PaleKing said:

Exactly, So what is the point of trying to get FFG to errata a card they have already banned?

 Forget it.      

 NOOOOOOOOO..... Keep fighting for your cause, PaleKing!!!

 Explain your issue one more time.  What exactly is the problem?

:-)

 OK...

As one of the players in PaleKing's group I'm going to offer up the following:

As it stands, our club is currently running a friendly league and no-one is even using an Empire deck, so the perceived notion that all the replies in this thread directed at PaleKing in that he is fighting a losing battle within his own gaming group to have the card banned is wrong.  That isn't an issue.

The question was asked in the OP that if FFG felt strongly enough to ban the card from tournament play, to the extend of publicly releasing a statement to that effect and that as official tournament play is very much in the minority of games of W:I played every day, then it stands to reason that the same ban should be extended to casual games as well.

Those games played which are casual are in no way less important or inferior to any games played at an official tournament and changes to rules of board games/CCG's/LCG's/RPG's or table-top miniature games should be no less important to the company who make them.  After all, I've bought and paid for the same product that the W:I World Champion has and whether or not I ever attend a tournament is completely irrelevant as being the consumer of the product I've every right to enjoy my product as much as the next gamer and the same level of customer service should be extended to us equally.

After all, if I'm playing basketball with some friends in a pick up game at the local sports hall and someone of the other team takes a shot and I jump up and block it once the ball has started it's downward flight to the basket - it's goal tending.  I don't need to be playing in the NBA Finals for that rule to take effect and it's not up to the guys I'm playing with to call that violation, if they wan't to.  The rule exists and the governing body that determines the rules for basketball didn't release a statement which says "Goal tending is banned in tournament play because it's unfair - but when playing with your mates, decide for yourselves."

If FFG have found the need to ban a card for tournament play then it should have been banned for all play, or at the very least FAQ'd to restrict the card for as PaleKing says, you shouldn't need to have to depend on your opponent having a conscience to enjoy a friendly game at the local gaming club.

 but its assumed ull use the faq in casual play too they have no direct control though over wether u do or not because no officials r watching ur game and checkin ur decks like in a tournement its up to u and ur friends to follow the faq and thats how house rules exist things that a specific game group thought of and believe made the game better but technically ll games should follow the rules in the most recent printed rule book/faq but ffg cant do anything if people dont

I think you've missed my point.

As you have said, they'll assume that you'll use the tournament restrictions for casual play...and the point is, you shouldn't have too.

Anyone play Warhammer Fantasy Battle?

The Power Scroll is banned at nearly all tournaments around the world.  It wasn't banned in an official GW tournament or in casual play, but a broken, over-powered item it remained and nearly every local tournament banned it.  GW saw this and FAQ'd the item in the rulebook so that players, casual players all over the world could use the item without feeling guilty.

What we be so difficult for FFG to follow suit and either errata the card or put they're hand up and say we really screwed up and ban the card altogether, regardless of the level of game being played or whether or not people choose to follow the FAQ or not.

Having an FAQ which has a section specifically called Banned List and then starts with the text "The following cards are banned for LCG tournament play..." doesn't lend itself well to casual gamers.

Wow...I can't believe you guys are still trying to make a point. Is this a joke? I can't tell anymore. It's banned. drop it. You and your group are the only ones making an issue of this.

I still believe PaleKing and DanalornDarkride are faking, they make such a fool of themselves.

But nevertheless this remarkable statement by Mallumo was ignored by the OP and his buddy although it hits the nail on the head.

Mallumo said:

Doc9 said:

Yes indeed, because the 11 unique players to have contributed to this thread are representative of the whole W:I global player community.

As for Mallumo statement that we are just picking and choosing which sections of the FAQ to use and which to ignore I guess he's right, but only because that's what the FAQ and errata have told us to use; the various sections of the FAQ begin which a small blurb of text which explains that section.

It says that under Section 1 - Card Clarification and Errata that these rules are the official card errata and for the official rulebook, it always says that there is a section for tournament restricted and banned cards.

So can someone (anyone) answer the following question for myself (and presumably PaleKing). If the cards listed in the FAQ are restricted or banned for tournament play only (as that's all that the FAQ says they are banned for), then why would anyone not playing in a tournament need to restrict or ban those cards from their deck for a friendly game?

In every CCG that I have played in the past, the players of our casual games assumed that the rules of tournament play are the rules that are used for casual play as well. The only thing that any particular company has control over in regards to play formats is their tournaments, and generally the tournament rules are the most well balanced and thought out. That is why when playing Magic or L5R, for instance, most people only play the current legal cards and do not play cards that are not legal unless they are playing something that specifically ignores erratta or tournament banned cards or restrictions.

In a sense, erratta only effects Tournament play the same as the restricted list and banned list since the only thing they have control over  is their tournaments. If they took out the clause indicating that it only was for tournament play, it would not change anything at all since it would still only affect their tournaments and whether to adhere to the erratta and other tournament clauses would depend on whether or not your particular group wants to adhere to the most balanced set of rules and regulations or whether they want to blaze their own path. 

Danalorn Darkrid said:

It's like foosball (table soccer) where 360-degree-shots ("spinning") are forbidden in tournaments. It's up to you what to do when your 11-year-old kid wins over you by spinning all the time in your basement...

 Well whenever my own son starts to cheat at games which have defined rules, then I give him a warning and if he persists I stop playing.  Simple as that.  Regardless of whether or not a games company or a sports body have defined a set of rules, the players of which should do there best to adhere to those rules whether or not they are playing in the world championship or their back yard, and even when those rules change over time.

Regardless of whether or not a company or sports body can enforce rule changes at non-official events, it shouldn't mean that they have no obligation to issue rules changes to correct mistakes and/or balance issues in rules.

 One of my Friday evening hobbies is to play pool at my local pub. Frequent rules discussions vary from:

Do two shots carry? Can I respot the white ball? If so, where do I respot the ball to? Do you get two-shots on the black? 

Why do I mention this? Because Pub-pool leagues vary from town-to-town, generally, they don't follow all of the official Pool rules. 

Similarly,

When you play a new opponent in WH:I, you should establish what rules you are playing... it's basic gaming etiquette. I play on the basis of that the WH:I Tournament rules apply. However, if my opponent doesn't want to play those, because he is drawing from a much more limited pool of cards (say he's only playing the Core Set and a couple boosters), than we can negotiate.

When you set up a league, then you should agree on what rules you're playing... You can restrict VTHC, and ban Warpstone Excavation... You can limit people to only 2 copies of each card to a deck.... You can ban multi-faction decks yet allow Dwarfs and Empire to work together because that's what lore allows...

Every game has its own "house" rules... how can FFG force ppl to get rid of VTHC? (Save paying for people to return their copy of VTHC for a $10 per copy and burning it on a VTHC fire on Bonfire Night)

Danalorn Darkrid said: