Another update for those implementing my House Rules…
1- The Flesh Is Weak (Talent), the Machine Trait*, and Sub-dermal Armour (and other bionics/cybernetics that add to AP) do not receive the +2 AP bonus.
2- Bionics/cybernetics that add to/subtract from TB instead convert to a Wounds modifier.
3- The Psychic Ability "Telekinetic Shield" provides +3 AP rather than +1, and adds +1 AP for every 10 points Overbleed on the power roll.
4- Talents that increase Toughness (such as Machinator Array), and Toughness Advances will increase Wounds as the TB increases, 1:1.
5- Sound Constitution: Nothing changes.
It's obviously cheaper (XP-wise) to raise Wounds via Sound Constitution rather than through Toughness Advances, but a lower Toughness makes it harder to resist the Toxic Quality, among other things. Just sayin'.
*Machines (and the Machine Trait) are meant to represent circuitry and mechanics in function, and the Machine Trait AP already represents the amount of punishment that things like Servitors, Cyber-constructs, and Cogitators can sustain before breaking down and ceasing to function.
Gah! It takes me a day to realize I thought something but failed to type it…
Regarding Bionics/Cybernetics: When bionics/cybernetics add to/subtract from a specific body location TB (IE: bionic heart, +1 TB Body location) the TB modifier is instead converted to Wounds (1:1)
I really need to gather all of this is one place…
I'll work on that.
In the meantime…
Some have expressed misgivings regarding the conversion of TB to Wounds, claiming there is a disparity between the protection once afforded and the newly adjusted Wounds score (I neither deny nor care about this). However, while surfing about the forums I stumbled upon an interesting facet of anatomy/body structure I hadn't considered: Size Modifiers; found on pg. 249 of the Deathwatch Core Rules. (Not for use with Swarms/Hordes)
A creature's Size will adjust its total Wounds score by the associated modifier, representing how frail/sturdy its body is.
*Minuscule represents something roughly the size of a common field mouse, and Puny a Servo-Skull. In both cases it is unnecessary to make any further adjustments to Wounds as those listed (most probably) correctly represent the creature in question.
Using the Size Modifiers above in conjunction with the remainder of my House Rules…
An Eldar Wraithlord (pg. 57 of The Koronus Bestiary) looks like this:
Damage reduction from Unnatural Toughness (x3)- 16
My Deathwatch Librarian looks like this:
Damage reduction from Unnatural Toughness (x2)- 5
My Warden of the Divisio Immoralis (DH Acolyte) looks like this:
Armour- 7 (Head 0)
Damage reduction from Toughness- 0
Please remember that I suggest against using these House Rules in Black Crusade/Only War. There are some subtle scaling differences (such as Unnatural Characteristics) and significant mechanic changes (such as Zealous Hatred) in those Core Rules that I haven't even considered. For Dark Heresy, Rogue Trader, and Deathwatch, these House Rules scale evenly across the Core Rules.
Armour Damage, similar to how cover is damaged? This way the Space Marine that tries to wade through oceans of lasgun fire eventually ends up naked.
The idea of combining penetration and damage seems good for creating an even more deadly game, with the 10 wound T3 human mentioned above dieing from a lasgun shot to the head a lot more of the time, increase all AP values by 2 or 3 to compensate?
I thought that's what Unnatural Toughness was supposed to represent. ;)
Not that I'm complaining; creature size affecting Wounds does make sense. I've always regarded Unnatural Traits as redundant and unbalanced ever since first seeing their rules in Dark Heresy.
space blanket said:
It's not a bad idea, come to think of it. Personally, I wouldn't rule it in a way that has AP disappear completely … even a damaged suit of armour will always confer some protection. At the same time, the concept that armour works just as well after a salvo of lascannon blasts or plasma shots as it did before is almost as bad as having characters "end up naked".
Perhaps a rule where an attack that causes an amount of base damage (no Pen) equal to the target's AP reduces it by 1 point for future attacks, up to 2/3 (rounded up) of the original protection value (for example power armour being "mauled down" from 8 to 6 AP)? This way, there will be armour damage (that can later be repaired) and characters end up more vulnerable, but never completely without protection. You could even have armour quality affect this condition, by requiring the attack to cause AP+1 damage to dent it, or -1 for poor quality. And the best thing, this hits high level characters much more than it would hit low level ones (with a suit of armour having to be at least AP 3 to lose any protection at all, and even then it'd be just 1 point).
Just a thought that sprang to mind, thinking about how "ablative armour" was handled in the Inquisitor RPG. Though there such a suit just had a certain amount of "one-time bonus AP" which were used up directly when soaking damage. This would be another option, of course, and one that is even more lethal.
I'm sure there are many more ways a concept like that could be pulled off, such as connecting it to Righteous Fury rolls, or using a weapon's Pen value instead of base damage as a condition for armour fatigue. Or even a combination of minimum base damage and Penetration, with a high Pen value requiring a lower base damage to cause damage to a suit of armour (such as: minimum base damage 10, but each point of Pen lowers the threshold by 1).
current 40k RPG character: Captain Elias, Celestial Lions Tactical Marine
Straight off, I'll agree with that the game could be more realistic, it could be more dangerous. Personally I've not had a problem with it being too safe. It's hell out there, and if you are worried that your well equipped accolytes are surviving too much fire from spods then you aren't hitting them with hard enough stuff (if you don't want to put a melta gun out there because your acolytes will nick it then thats a different issue).
BUT, my only problem, other than the long winded rules change. Is that this drastically changes the class balance, you'll notice that the guys that can by cheap toughness advances have expensive agility advances and usually their dodge skills are few and far between. When the only difference between characters soak is a few wounds before they die (and as you say extra wounds are cheaper than putting toughness up) then dodge is only thing that's going to reduce the amount of damage you take on a turn by turn basis.
We've all heard apocryphal tales of Tech preists being immune to all basic weapon, but there's still plenty of things in the DH that will hurt or outright kill them which they have a very very slim chance to dodge.
Been using this in our games of Dark Heresy and Deathwatch for about twelve weeks (sessions) now. There have been further refinements, but it really is no more difficult to incorporate into our games now we're familiar with it's mechanics. Particularly, I find this gives Deathwatch a boost of "epic"…PCs have wound totals of 30-35, Damage mitigation is still between 11-20 depending on the Pen of weapons being used to attack them, and there isn't quite so much opportunity for Marines to have an unlucky moment take them down in one kerrang. Now, it takes two or three kerrangs. Cover has become more critical, but this creates a greater depth of game immersion for both the Players and the GM (me).
The Critical Threshold has had the greatest amount of revision. When a Marine takes -2, -8, and -9 Criticals all in one Round, this Critical Threshold is a life saver…in that there is a slim chance for excessive Fatigue and blessed unconsciousness (ignored by Stimm injectors) rather than just flat out death and Fate Point burning. This also gives Daemon Princess, Chaos Space Marine Lords, and other significant opponents a little more edge at the end of their days.
There has also been a few minor revisions to Flesh Is Weak/Machine Trait…basically having it stack with armour AP and any Unnatural Toughness/Daemonic Traits against Flame Quality attacks (great vs. Heavy Flamers/Avenger and Sonic weaponry).
I haven't read of anyone else giving these House Rules a try, so I thought an update might spark renewed interest in the topic and debate.
Anyone interested in seeing the revised edition of these House Rules feel free to PM me.