If that's the case then literally nothing can damage it since blast damage, as stated in the rule book, deals damage to the engaged objective. 

And, per Trench Run, to the Death Star dial.  Which does not, however, make it an objective.

zmobie said:

The Golden Rule page 11. 

The reason for the schism is becoming clearer. Correct me if I'm wrong, but there are two lines of thinking here.

1) Trench run allows you to engage the Death Star dial as though it were an objective, and since you do blast damage when you engage an objective, blast damage inherently applies to the Death Star dial when Trench Run is in play.

2) Trench run allows you to engage the Death Star dial but that is all. Blast damage is a distinct effect from engagement. If blast damage applies to Death Star dial via Trench Run (which we all agree it should), then Target of Opportunity should also apply because there is virtually no difference between blast damage text and Target of Opportunity text (except for the word "enemy" in the blast damage rules).

When I read the rules, my mind doesn't automatically assume that blast damge = engaging an objective, so that's why I'm in camp 2.

Toqtamish said:

Toqtamish said:

Let me make this perfectly clear.

trench run doesn't say you can damage it with blast damage, it only says you can engage it as if it were an objective. The golden rule isn't applicable here since we don't have the words 'cannot' nor do we have a contradiction between rulebook or card effects. 

The rule book effect of Blast Damage states that you deal damage to the engaged objective. 

The effect of target of opportunity states that you deal damage to the engaged objective. 

Target of Opportunity and Blast damage have the same effect. 

Therefore, if blast damage works, so does target of opportunity. 

The converse is also true. If target of opportunity doesn't work, then neither does blast damage. 

What specific statement of this argument do you disagree with? 

zmobie said:

The part where the card says, "it is not an objective."  It can't be an engaged objective because "it is not an objective."  You can damage it  LIKE an engaged objective, but "it is not an objective."

Being able to damage it doesn't make it an objective just because you can damage objectives.

Please read the text for blast damage in the rulebook.

if the striking player is attacking, he deals an amount of damage to the engaged enemy objective equal to the (blast) strength of the striking unit. 

By your logic, blast damage does not put damage on the Death Star dial. Please explain. 

It does put blast damage on the Death Star.  That doesn't make it an engaged objective though.  It makes it the Death Star dial that you're able to deal blast damage to.  It's a case of the card taking precedence over the rules, just like the book states should happen.

Seriously, the effort put into asserting this card makes the Death Star an objective requires so much more hoop jumping than reading that it doesn't.  Especially when THAT'S WHAT THE CARD SAYS.

But this is pointless.  Everyone's going to insist they're right until FFG puts an FAQ out.

DailyRich said:

I'm not saying that this card makes the Death Star an objective. The card says you can engage it like it was an objective. We all agree on that point. Please follow along. I won't reiterate my argument again. I've reworded it several times in order to make it more clear.

What I find crazy about this whole discussion is it was asked over on BGG forums and Patrick Brennan, while not a FFG employee but was a playtester for the game, said things like Hit and Run and Wookie Navigator do work in conjunction with Trench Run. Take that for what it's worth.

The only thing I have to say is with tournaments getting ready to fire up, this mythical FAQ needs to show up soon.

I think that both fate card effects and unopposed bonus apply to the Death star dial when enhanced by the Trench Run card. The card specifies:
"You may engage the Death Star dial as though it were a dark side objective (it is not an objective)".

Everyone seems to agree that the card allows the dial to be declared as an objective during the conflict phase, so far so good.

This then means that an engagement can be started with the Dial as the engaged objective. An engagement consist of 6 engagements steps:
1. Declare Objective
2. Declare Attackers
3. Declare Defenders
4. Fight Edge Battle
5. Resolve Strikes
6. Reward Unopposed

All of these steps are considered to be part of the engagement. For the blast damage icon to apply (which everyone seems to agree on) the dial needs to be considered as an "engaged objective" during the Resolve strikes step. But there is nothing on the Trench Run card that implies that the it is only blast damage that can be given to the enhanced dial, or that it is only an engaged objective for purposes of  the Declaring Objective and Resolve Strikes steps. To me the most natural interpretation is that the dial is treated as an engaged objective during the entire engagement, therefore both edge cards and  unopposed should apply.

Also, if my interpretation is correct, the dial is also vulnerable to event cards that may target an "engaged objective" during the engagement. But I don't think any such cards exist.

But, yes, it needs to be clarified in the FAQ, I hope it comes out soon.

DailyRich said:

And where on the card does it say that units can deal blast damage to it?  Oh, yeah nowhere.  It only says it can be engaged as an objective while still not becoming an objective.  It does not say anything about how it can be damaged at all anywhere on the card.

For the card to work at all it must be treated as the "engaged objective" because that is the only way units can strike it for damage as that is how the rules specifically spell out the blast icons work.  They deal damage to the "engaged objective".  If the Trench Run does not become the "engaged objective" then it can not be struck for blast damage.  The rules on striking and the icons are extraordinarily clear on that.  So if the Trench Run has to be treated as the "engaged objective" for the purpose of functioning at all, there is no reason it is not the "engaged objective" in all cases that specify the "engaged objective".

You position is in no way valid with the rules as we have them.  The Trench Run card does not specify how it is damaged, only that it can be engaged and can take damage.  Units strike and deal damage to the "engaged objective" with any blast icons they have, that is clearly stated in the rules.  For the Trench Run to work at all, it therefore must be treated as the "engaged objective" or else units could not damage it when striking.  If it is the "engaged objective" for that one instance, there is no reason to say it isn't for the undefended bonus, etc.

You are inventing hoops that are not there.

Just so it is abundantly clear because you continue to ignore it.  The Trench Run card does not state that units can strike it and deal damage equal to thier blast icon.  That text is nowhere on the card as you continue to insist.  The card says it may be engaged, there is nothing on it about altering the rules on striking or icons.  Not a word.

ScottieATF said:

As someone who is starting to come around to the pro-Target of Opportunity camp, the need for such a pointed, condescending response is elusive.

ScottieATF said:

The card says right on it, when it takes 10 damage LS wins. How then can you argue that it is not capable of taking damage ? You cannot seriously believe that is correct.