| Register Now | |
| My Points | |
| My Games | |
| Page 2 of 2 (25 messages) | « First page... 1 2 |
I think the Triplex is ok as it is now, as a DMR special weapon, with the standard lasgun being the normal weaponry issued. The other standard lasguns need the variable setting, as they are built on the same design as the M36, as does the laspistol. The carbine lasgun could be modified to an assault lasgun, dropping the variable setting in favor of automatic fire option.
On the Hellgun, I think they are ok as is, although a setting for anti-infantry like Manyfist proposed would be nice. It shouldn't however have automatic fire; it's not a weapon made for spraying or suppression fire. They also need to stop calling them Hot-Shot lasguns, as the Hot-Shot packs are another thing entirely, and it only confuses everyone.
Mortem incipiens est
I believe hot-shot comes from the table top, as to not have the 'new' Str3 AP3 imperial guard stomr trooper weapon being confused with the str3AP5 hellguns the storm troopers in the Witch hunters codex had.
My Dark Heresy Game
http://dark-heresy.wikispaces.com/Dark-Heresy+Redux
"Hot Shot lasguns" used to be a weapon in 2nd edition. They were lasguns with a hotshot backpack. This increased their power to essentially be the same as a boltgun (Strength 4 and a -1 Armour Save Modifier). These disappeared in 3rd edition with the appearance of the "hellgun", a strength 3 ap 5 weapon ("Woot! Such an awesome upgrade compared to the standard lasgun!"). Then they gave storm troopers AP 3, and, as you say, they had to call them something different to differentiate them from hellguns elsewhere. Hot-shot lasguns made a return. However, I disagree with FFG decision to directly translate them from the table top, making newer hellguns (which is all they were) Pen 7. AP 3 was purely an attempt to give them a tabletop game role (theoretically killing power armour guys). I don't think it was really a signal that hellguns were meant to punch through power armour like it was paper.
Well variable is now on all except for Hellguns.
Well regardless of what they isn’t much of issue now, its whether it does its job in ‘short range’ combat; and the answer is still no.
Now that most of the lasguns (except the ones mentioned on the first page) have variable settings the Hell/Hot-shot lasgun/pistol is certainly going to need a boost. Since the Storm Trooper now has his armour back he has his endurance back but he’s still lacking in teeth, and most Players may rather use heavy-weapons instead of the his traditional weapon because it still doesn’t help him in close-quarters (how many guys are wearing power armour anyways?).
The most pragmatic Players will simply take the Triplex Pattern Lasgun because it would allow them to act in several theaters of war: standard gun-fight; long-range combat; close-quarters shooting.
And admit it saying something like: “Alright boys, its time for INCINERATION MODE!” just sounds cool.
*waves hand* Moving past that there are a fair number of ways this could be remedied, perhaps too many to close from really, here are a few suggestions. All the below examples are for the lasgun version.
[High Damage, Mid-AP, No Special]
Example: Damage: 1d10+7 AP: 4 Special: -
In this example the gun has one hell of a punch for a basic weapon and has just enough AP to ignore the standard Guard Flak Armour. This is done by simply trading in AP for damage and while heavier (or better made) amours will still provide a some protection the overwhelming damage means even creatures with High Toughness and Unnatural Toughness cant simply ignore it like they can now.
[Standard Damage, Standard AP, Tearing]
Example: Damage: 1d10+4 AP: 7 Special: Tearing
This one is a simple one that doesn’t actually solve the problem entirely, but isn’t an option I can simply ignore (no matter how much I want to), and its simple to implement as well. The weapon retains its decent damage and high AP and gets the ability to roll twice and take the better result for damage, which may increase by a small amount. But I don’t favor this because it still doesn’t really solve the problem Hellguns have against Tough targets, that being that they have low Armor more often than not, since it doesn’t change the fact that the weapon still has to beat a Total Toughness Bonus that is almost always still very high after Armour (The average Ork Boy has a TB of 6 and the Terror Cats of “Against the Savages” has a TB of 8!).
[Standard Damage, Mid-AP, Proven (5), Felling (4)]
Example: 1d10+4 AP 4 Special: Proven (5), Felling (4)
This one I favor because it relatively equal to the Incineration mode of the Triplex, while its damage isn’t overwhelming and its AP will generally only ignore standard Flak Armour its special abilities make up for it where it counts. As I mentioned in another post, and to a lesser degree in the above example, a fairly large number of enemies have Armour between 2-4 (with only a handful that have higher) and have both high Toughness Scores and the Unnatural Toughness Trait (generally at Rating 2). This configuration means that on average you are still able to defeat most armours and despite modest damage can still deal with enemies that rely on those attributes to survive consistently…after all your if you don’t kill them real soon they’re going to rip your face off.
[Less Damage, Lesser-AP, Proven (5), Tearing, Felling (4)]
Example: 1d10+3 AP: 3 Special: Proven (5), Tearing, Felling (5)
This ones an odd duck because it lowers most of the parameters of the gun in order for it to gain multiple abilities. Like the above example it provides a rather reliable average damage due to Proven and its Felling quality reduces the longevity of Unnaturally Tough enemies, even though against foes without that trait it comes out weaker. Surprisingly it has proven (no Pun!) to be still capable of a weapon due to the fact that since you roll two dice and always take the highest roll (which can be a 10) and the Proven quality means that no matter how bad you roll you still do a minimal of 8 damage.
Still, if it walks like a duck; quacks like a duck; it must therefore be a duck.

I didn’t get into what the weapon might be like if either Remove Semi-Auto (making it single shot) or add Full-Auto, so if anyone thinks they can think of a good one please post it.
Just as the Hellgun struggles against high Toughness-low Armor opponents, the Triplex Phall underperforms against high Armor-low Toughness targets. Sporting an unmodifiable Pen 0, the only chance it has against heavy armor is to set for Accurate mode and hope for the best. If he can tackle the weight, the best bet for a Storm Trooper would be to carry both, and thus be ready for almost everything. Except for high Toughness-high Armor foes like Space Marines or Ork 'Ard Boyz, but that's why you dragged the Heavy along.
Overcharge Pack: Reduce Capacity to 75% [round down] instead of 50%.
Settings:
High [+1 Damage, +1 Penetration, Felling[1], 2 ammo per shot]
Overload [+2 Damage, +2 Penetration, Felling[2], 4 ammo per shot, Lose reliable or gain unreliable unless Good Quality or better]
Weapon Specifics:
Pistols only have access to the High Setting.
Bullpup and Carbine Patterns add 10m to their range when fired on High or Overload
Long-Las Patterns lose no reliability when fired on Overload.
Heavy Weapons do not have an Overload Setting.
Hellguns: Drop Pen to 6, add Felling[2]. They do not have an Overload Setting.
Hellgun High: +2 Damage, Felling[2], 3 ammo per shot. Gains Recharge.
This gives us total hellgun output of 1d10+6 Pen 6 Felling[4] on high. It burns through standard carapace, and averages 1d10+2 wounds against a space marine. A full volley could in fact down one with a bit of luck, rather consistent with the tabletop
Kiton said:
This gives us total hellgun output of 1d10+6 Pen 6 Felling[4] on high. It burns through standard carapace, and averages 1d10+2 wounds against a space marine. A full volley could in fact down one with a bit of luck, rather consistent with the tabletop
Actually, at 1d10 (1d10-2 if hit on the chestplate) straight damage, a full volley will most likely down a space marine without needing much luck, which would make me wonder why bother with plasma weaponry in the first place. The tabletop is like it is for game balance reasons and its regularly inconsistent with its own fluff because of it.
Perhaps my suggestion is a little much for Hellguns, although I'd have to say that going back to the Dark Heresy days of "why would anyone ever take this plasma" is something that needs fixing quick on those poor weapons ends itself.
Still, Hellguns should have a little something. At maximum output, whether there's different settings or there isn't, it should at least have a little more impact than it does. 1d10+4 Pen 6 Felling[2] is probably all right; its substantially more effective than a regular lasgun against armour, and to a lesser degree, against other forms of resilience too, without being much more damaging against a naked cultist [+4 vs +3].
We'd go from dealing 1 damage to non-chest parts of marines on a 6 [8 otherwise] when we manage to even hit and not get dodged, to doing so on a 5.
As for Plasma, any weapon meant to crack Terminator Armour that starts mucking about on an Armour-Monger's Carapace should not have been seen since the old Dark Heresy versions we all love to avoid. An OW Plasma Gun, right now, would be lucky to inflict a point of damage versus a TB8 Terminator [in fact it does so on a 10, so it at least gets to commit RF]. Compare that to a Rogue Trader's, or BC Cultist model [I hate to bring different games in on it like that, but the bloodletters haven't changed since BC's stats, and chances are plenty of targets are going to be roughly the same as well.
Its easier to fix a few weapons than to redo all the critters, right?
HTMC said : " I actually feel like the Laspistol shouldn't have variable settings, since normally they operate as a last-ditch back-up weapon and don't need to vary the oomph, as it were. If nothing else, unlike many mentions of changing lasgun settings, I don't off-hand know of anywhere in codexes or BL novels where people adjust laspistol power levels. I could very well be wrong, though, so feel free to correct me." Well the Imperuim of Man is a very big place hundreds of thousands if not millions of world and stations a cross the galaxy. If only half where civilised, and only half of those could produce las weapons, thats still many thousands making las pistols in countless variants. This is truly a galaxy of guns. I am shore that there are variable setting las pistols. Im not saying they all are but there are some. Sorry for any mis-speld words or gramarical errors Im doing this on a PS3.
Go to war? With a lasgun? What the f@ck am I guna kill with a flash light?!
| Page 2 of 2 (25 messages) | « First page... 1 2 |