Don't some second-rate Forge worlds stamp out humongous tanks and call them 'Baneblades' based more on size and role that actual lineage of design or real capability? I can see 'Honest ArchMagos Al's Best Bargain Bonanza!' producing a variety of cheap copies of famous warmachines using inferior mass production-friendly designs. Doubtless such a fake 'Land Raider' would still be an impressively large and powerful APC, but the SM wouldn't feel quite so mortified as to cross the Ad Mech who said it was all honestly okay and above board.

Not to rule out the possiblity of the real thing salvaged from such an ancient battlefield that nobody knows who it originally belonged to, but that's not really good enough to outfit a whole Battalion.

It's not that I don't like you train of thought, but I think a Land Raider is just too high-tech for them to pull something like that off. With advanced armour, and whatnot, that keep the size relatively small, so that while it's one of the most durable tanks the Imperium can field, it can still transport an entire squad of Space Marines.

A Baneblade, being larger, has more robust parts, and less fancy at that. So in that case, and similar ones, Forge Worlds without the actual plans can probably mock-up a suitable knockoff based on observations, and partial-data. Producing a functionally similar, but likely overall inferior (or maybe even superior?) version of the hardware in question.

Though we could reasonable infer that the Mechanicus isn't totally incapable of building new stuff that works. Considering the case of the Vanquisher (there's still one Forge-World producing them, things could be fine once it goes in to full Production. And what the hell is Mars doing, just sitting on the damn copies of the plans it's supposed to have?).

CodenameXXIII said:

I've mentioned this elsewhere.

No rogue traders with land raiders, please.

Atleast not battalions.

SM chapters tend to have a few (10 or so I understand?) But a battalion? No-one's fielded battalions of land raiders since the Heresy.

Using the rules in Battlefleet Koronus, A Battalion could be as few as 20-30 vehicles. While that's certainly a lot for land raiders it's not totally beyond the realm of comprehension. Particularly when you read the background on this particular Rogue Trader. The Guy can apparently afford to field not one but two light cruisers in this conflict while the rest (?!) of his fleet continues with normal business! Thic ain't no beginner folks!

Nor is he one of the original Space Marine legions. Whether you try to justify it or not, the fact that a Rogue Trader just happens to have a battalion of extremely rare super heavy APCs is just weird. It becomes even more weird if you know where Land Raiders are usually and almost always found. In the hands of the people they were made for, the Space Marines, and in the hands of the guys with literally the entirety of Imperial resources at their command, the Inquisition.

Also, the fact that you have to literally put effort into why this should be normal is a pretty big red flag.

Is it possible the land raiders are pre heresy relics gifted to the house by decree of the Emperor and the warrant he himself issued? If so, then the Rogue Trader's piece of paper is older than some administratum drone's piece of paper and thus has a higher precedent. Especially if said gift came with a clause of "And shall not be taken away for so long as "so and so" uses them to spread the imperial truth no matter what else I might say".

In such a case most organizations would simply let it lie. Even Astartes chapters might let it go so long as the tanks in question had never belonged to a legion or chapter. If the Trader in question also has a few Astartes as retainers then it's even less of an issue. Unless there's some preexisting conflict already in place I can't see to many marines doing more than glowering and refusing to work directly with the "mere mortal". They have better things to do than rolling in the muck with a perfumed dandy.

OTOH I think having more than five to ten is a wee bit to much..unless this guy also has a few squads of Space Marines on his ship that he's transporting to a war zone at the time.

Nobody, not even the space marines, needs ten land raiders to transport a squad.

DJSunhammer said:

10 land raiders is enough to transport a full company of Adeptus Astartes and according to Lexicanum only 1st company of Chapter gets them (only Salamanders use 12 because their 1st company has 12 squads)

Also there is noted in Lexicanum that land raiders in sufficient numbers are capable of destroying Titan. In that case, if rogue trader has full batallion he could wipe out Orcs from that planet all by himself… no need of Imperial Guard deployment…

Ok First; in all reality the most likely number of a Landraider Battalion? Its MAYBE 9. A squad of landraiders is usually 1-3 and a battalion is made up of said squads. So not as all likely we are talking about more then 10. 

Second; it does not mention anywhere in the book what model of landraider he has. A number of the older model landraiders were not only assigned to normal humans but the damn things wouldnt even hold a troop of space marines as they wernt designed for them. So instead of worrying that a "Mere" Rogue Trader has what is described as a battalion of landraider maybe wonder what type they are. Also the comment about landraiders being able to wipe out the entire Ork problem alone? No. Just no. Only a number of models of Landraiders could take out a Titan hell one model was designed to do just that. But first of all MARS has most of those and second the normal Landraider load out would barely scratch the paint with out a lascannon.

This is one of those things that really dosnt need to be argued over. The number of ways a Rogue Trader could bet its hands on ANY equipment from the Imperium are endless. And nowhere in that adventure does it even mention that the Land Raiders were LEGAL. It only mentions he HAS them. And as previously mentioned by others unless someone with the firepower to back up their complaint came around and MADE the complaint no one is gona argue with him about it. Seeing as he is described as being a damn powerful and influential RT the likelyhood of someone have the balls, or even just the time, to confront him over it is unlikely.

I mean really guys? Half the things in the lore go on about the number of Laws broken by just about every organization in the damn Imperium without them being punished for it. From the Space Wolves to the Inquisition to the Tech Priests and Sector Govenors everyone of them break and bend the laws of the empire all the time. They just havnt, or arnt worth the expenditure of resources at the time, and thats the end of that.

@Ravenstormchaser

If the adventure was already published, I'd agree with you. There are hundreds of ways that this situation could come to pass. However, none of them is written in the adventure - and there's still time to change that. It's not that the battallion can't be explained, it's that it hasn't been explained. The fact that it has raised so many eyebrows here should indicate it will raise many more in the future, even though it is merely an oddity, a throw-away reference that is never picked up again.

It's like if I wrote a murder mystery set in the real world, described one of the characters as "Oh, and he has blue skin" and never got back to that. My readers would at first wonder why he's got blue skin and then, when no explanation follows, settle for "Because the author wanted him to be a special snowflake. Ugh." And that's what I feel is happening here due to the rarity of Landraiders. Either explain them or drop them.

I agree that land raiders should be changed to armored battalion or something similar without actually having to detail what kind of tanks.

The point of the sentence is to show that the Rogue Trader is investing heavily in defending the planet - it doesn't have to be land raiders.

I suspect the outrage and disbelief in this thread are the exact reactions that House Gibrahan wished to provoke when it acquired all those lovely Land Raiders.

Alox said:

I'm willing to bet the intent was to sort of tip the hand at the kind of power available to the Rogue Trader, possibly in an attempt to help describe him in later campaign books when he inevitably rebels against the Imperium.

Ravenstormchaser said:

As an ex servicemen I fully disagree with this claim. Company of vehicles to carry Company of men… Battalion of vehicles to carry Batallion of men… thats the rule. If we consider standard military organizations in most countries of modern era and Warhammer 40k military organizations are based on some crossover between modern / contemporary organizations and some archaic Napoleon era (most Imperial Guard) and even medieval (Adeptus Astartes) military organisation structures then a Batallion of Land Raiders would mean around 30 or more vehicles, considering Squad -> Platoon -> Company -> Batallion hierarchy. There are no squads in motorised, mechanized or armored regiments. There are sections of 2-3 vehicles which can form up platoons of 4 to 6 vehicles… it depends. Further that Platoons form up a Company with roughly 10 to even 20 vehicles. Further that Companies form Battalions which consist of number of Companies so we came up to roughly 30 to 60 vehicles per Battalion.

I'm not some heavy Warhammer 40k tabletop gamer, I don't have a single model, but I've read through Codexses and a loads of military literature form Roman era to contemporary and from what I've learned there are no Battalions in Warhammer 40k military organization anyways… they simply skipped from Company to Regiment.

I really just don't like how many of them there are, either.

And brb… gonna check Imperial Armour to see if that will shed any light on what the structure is like in the game. Maybe the Primer or Munitorium book too…