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Stand together against an ancient evil
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Unclechawie said:
Bleached Lizard said:
Unclechawie said:
So now we know who the eight hero is. I'm still curious about the combat. 1st ED had the dice on the card sheets. A guess but maybe standard combat dice for each archetype (maybe even class type) that is further modified by equipment. Fun stuff, looking forward to more.
What do you mean? 1E had the attack dice on the weapon card - only power dice were on the hero card. And it seems power dice are only available by spending fatigue now.
That's just the thing though, power dice varied from character to character in 1st ED. If rolls are weapon specific and we can still buy dice with fatigue, a warrior can essentially due the same base damage as a scout with the same weapon and spending the same fatigue. Realistically a warrior would be able to do much more damage due to strength that isn't represented.
I took A peak at the weapons cards in the preview and the healer and Mage weapons both used the same attack dice. 1 blue, 1 yellow. The fighter used 1 blue , 1 red. Without some way to represent a differentiation in skill level with a specific weapon or weapon type, what's really the difference when it comes to attacki. It becomes all about the weapon, and less about the hero wielding the weapon. Thus I'm curious as to how combat will work.
Go check back the previous previews, Leoric of the Book has 3 Runemaster ability cards laid next to him. That's where every character's attacks will be differentiated (get an extra surge, etc. etc.). They'll say more in upcoming previews.
Up the Irons!
Mordjinn said:
"Revive an adjacent hero who has been knocked out."
No more dying!!! My prayers to the gaming gods have been answered. Thank you FFG!
Yup, a good idea that they took from the Gears of War board game.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Bleached Lizard said:
Unclechawie said:
Bleached Lizard said:
Unclechawie said:
So now we know who the eight hero is. I'm still curious about the combat. 1st ED had the dice on the card sheets. A guess but maybe standard combat dice for each archetype (maybe even class type) that is further modified by equipment. Fun stuff, looking forward to more.
What do you mean? 1E had the attack dice on the weapon card - only power dice were on the hero card. And it seems power dice are only available by spending fatigue now.
That's just the thing though, power dice varied from character to character in 1st ED. If rolls are weapon specific and we can still buy dice with fatigue, a warrior can essentially due the same base damage as a scout with the same weapon and spending the same fatigue. Realistically a warrior would be able to do much more damage due to strength that isn't represented.
I took A peak at the weapons cards in the preview and the healer and Mage weapons both used the same attack dice. 1 blue, 1 yellow. The fighter used 1 blue , 1 red. Without some way to represent a differentiation in skill level with a specific weapon or weapon type, what's really the difference when it comes to attacki. It becomes all about the weapon, and less about the hero wielding the weapon. Thus I'm curious as to how combat will work.
Again, probably skills. We've already seen one ability that only works on Magic weapons. Presumably there will be others in each of the class decks.
This is my assumption as well. I'm looking forward to some sort of confirmation though in the upcoming previews. When they said check back often, I'm hoping that doesn't weekly. I'm hoping they come out with more and more previews the closer we get to the shipment date.
Without Signature
Here's what I'm most excited about!
"From left to right, Jain’s attributes are Willpower, Might, Knowledge, and Awareness. These versatile stats underscore Second Edition’s focus on compelling narratives; a scenario might call for a test of Might to move a boulder blocking a path, or a test of Awareness to avoid an ambush by sinister goblins. Even new versions of classic Overlord cards like Curse of the Monkey God depend on a character’s attributes. This underhanded spell can only be resisted by a display of superior intellect, represented in-game by a Knowledge test."
THIS is where a lot of the role-play lite stuff is going to come into play. No longer is the game merely centered on combat tactics...using the rules above, it in fact mimics the granddad of all dungeon crawlers, D&D. Now the GM/Overlord can call for tests of Willpower to convince a merchant to lower the price on an item, or a Knowledge test to try and recall the location of a particular mine shaft, or an Awareness check to notice the Elf scout that's been following the party for the past two days. In other words, these new rules/mechanics will allow us to think outside the hack/slash encounter box (not that I have a problem with killing the monsters and taking their treasure).
I also see this edition becoming much more hackable and more open to player created variants. Hell, with the few rules I've gleaned from recent updates, I'd venture to guess that it would be relatively easy to ditch the tiles, use a dry-erasable battlemat and some sort of overland map to create an open world sandbox for the heroes to explore as opposed to the more rigid, board-game like random/preset generation of events.
My gaming blog: cabalsandcantrips.wordpress.com/
'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe
All mimsy were the borogoves
And the mome raths outgrabe
-Jabberwocky
"What you say is very fine, Adso, and I thank you. The order that our mind imagines is like a net, or like a ladder, built to attain something. But afterward you must throw the ladder away, because you discover that, even if it was useful, it was meaningless. . . . The only truths that are useful are instruments to be thrown away."
- Umberto Eco (The Name of the Rose)
GoblynKing said:
Here's what I'm most excited about!
"From left to right, Jain’s attributes are Willpower, Might, Knowledge, and Awareness. These versatile stats underscore Second Edition’s focus on compelling narratives; a scenario might call for a test of Might to move a boulder blocking a path, or a test of Awareness to avoid an ambush by sinister goblins. Even new versions of classic Overlord cards like Curse of the Monkey God depend on a character’s attributes. This underhanded spell can only be resisted by a display of superior intellect, represented in-game by a Knowledge test."
THIS is where a lot of the role-play lite stuff is going to come into play. No longer is the game merely centered on combat tactics...using the rules above, it in fact mimics the granddad of all dungeon crawlers, D&D. Now the GM/Overlord can call for tests of Willpower to convince a merchant to lower the price on an item, or a Knowledge test to try and recall the location of a particular mine shaft, or an Awareness check to notice the Elf scout that's been following the party for the past two days. In other words, these new rules/mechanics will allow us to think outside the hack/slash encounter box (not that I have a problem with killing the monsters and taking their treasure).
I also see this edition becoming much more hackable and more open to player created variants. Hell, with the few rules I've gleaned from recent updates, I'd venture to guess that it would be relatively easy to ditch the tiles, use a dry-erasable battlemat and some sort of overland map to create an open world sandbox for the heroes to explore as opposed to the more rigid, board-game like random/preset generation of events.
So I've been pretty quiet, but I feel I gotta ask this: Why do you want want Descent to become a full on RPG? I like that they are expanding the lite story elements, the extra depth presented so far looks good. But your points imply to me that you want more of a full on story, instead of the bare bones plots Descent had. To me, that's a big part of the point to Descent: "Smash some monsters, grab the loot, who cares about 'Why are we here?'."
I liked that Descent focused almost entirely on the combat, it's the reason I bought it instead of continuing to play Pen & Paper RPGs. Thing is, there are plenty of excellent choices for tactical dungeon crawling with deeper story. Pathfinder, D&D 4.0 or the upcoming 5.0 are all options much closer to what I get from your post, and with little need to make the rules up yourself.
I'm sure some talented people are going to put some slick rules together for just such an idea, but I'm not sure I see a good reason why.
Proto Persona said:
I'm sure some talented people are going to put some slick rules together for just such an idea, but I'm not sure I see a good reason why.
That's the point. Some of us just like to tweak and hack games. You can't see a good reason why? Well, you're not one of those people, so of course you don't see the point. I'm not asking the designers to cater to my tastes, that's the point in homebrewed variant rules.
My gaming blog: cabalsandcantrips.wordpress.com/
'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe
All mimsy were the borogoves
And the mome raths outgrabe
-Jabberwocky
"What you say is very fine, Adso, and I thank you. The order that our mind imagines is like a net, or like a ladder, built to attain something. But afterward you must throw the ladder away, because you discover that, even if it was useful, it was meaningless. . . . The only truths that are useful are instruments to be thrown away."
- Umberto Eco (The Name of the Rose)
GoblynKing said:
Proto Persona said:
I'm sure some talented people are going to put some slick rules together for just such an idea, but I'm not sure I see a good reason why.
That's the point. Some of us just like to tweak and hack games. You can't see a good reason why? Well, you're not one of those people, so of course you don't see the point. I'm not asking the designers to cater to my tastes, that's the point in homebrewed variant rules.
Hallelujah, sister! 
Want to use more expansion monsters in a RtL campaign? Download my dungeon level loadout sheet. Want more varied and interesting abilities for the heroes? Have a look at my Craft cards! After a more thematic Android experience? Check out Android: The Directors Cut. Tired of the same old plots? Try The Directors Cut - Alternate Plots. Want a different way to play BSG: Pegasus? Look at Pegasus: Razor Cut.
GoblynKing said:
That's the point. Some of us just like to tweak and hack games. You can't see a good reason why? Well, you're not one of those people, so of course you don't see the point. I'm not asking the designers to cater to my tastes, that's the point in homebrewed variant rules.
True enough, and that's a fair response. Still, I really do want to know why you want a deeper RPG experience out of Descent when there are already good games that cater to what you sound like you're looking for. Asking for more RPG stuff was pretty common during 1st edition. I'm just wondering why people seem to be looking for that experience from this game when it already exists.
So they leaked the Mad Carthos sheet from the conversion kit on their FB page, nice.
It seems every character so far has a total of 11 points divided between the 4 attributes.
Up the Irons!
Sausageman said:
I wonder if this will be a straight copy (near as anyway) of Gears of War?
It does beg the question though, how does the Overlord score conquest or whatever they may have instead?
Well, assuming the rules are as close as possible to 1e in this regard, perhaps the OL just scores conquest every time he KOs a hero. Mechanically speaking, the difference between "death" in 1e and "KO" in 2e is minimal. The hero gets to stand up in the same space he fell down in rather than returning through one of a few pre-defined glyph spaces, and he also requires a friend to come tag him. Other than that, the difference is purely fluff.
Of course, there's no guarantee that conquest still exists/works like it used to, either. If the rules are new then I'm sure FFG has thought of something appropriate. For example, if the rules requires an "awake" hero to come tag a "KO'd" hero before he can stand up, then surely the OL will win if all the heroes are KO'd at once. Maybe there's no more score-keeping, just an all out brawl to see who's the last man standing.
Proto Persona said:
I'm sure some talented people are going to put some slick rules together for just such an idea, but I'm not sure I see a good reason why.
There is only ever one reason for any kind of homebrew content: because you can.
There is no good reason to do it, and there is no good reason not to do it. Even if the homebrew in question is made to fix some obvious flaws in the game (to the point where everyone who likes the game reccommends using these house rules to fix it), the only reason to make such rules or use them is "because you can." If a game is broken out of the box, that's bad on the game designer. If you choose to buy it anyway and use a common set of popular house rules to play it, you're not doing that because you need to, you're doing it because you want to. Because you want to own this broken game instead of passing and finding something else.
(I'm not saying D2e is broken, mind you. That's just an example of an extreme case in homebrewing.)
For my part, I love full-on RPGs, but as I get older and busier, I find that I have less and less time to spend creating adventures, thinking of plot lines and generally doing all the work required to put together a game. I also seem to be one of the only people in my group who's willing to be the GM on a regular basis, which means I almost always have to be the one who does all that stuff. If I can get a board game that does 90% of that work for me and just hack in a few extra house rules to extend the role-playing aspects beyond the raw dice, that's a huge win for me.
Perhaps you will understand when you get older, until then, rest assured that you don't need to object to Goblyn's ideas just because you don't support them. You can each play the game the way you want to.
MP3 killed the radio star
Steve-O said:
Perhaps you will understand when you get older, until then, rest assured that you don't need to object to Goblyn's ideas just because you don't support them. You can each play the game the way you want to.
I guess I came across wrong if people got this from my post. I don't object to people wanting this stuff. I just don't understand it is all. And this isn't coming from youth, I'm 33.
To me it's like a mob of people wanting to play an FPS inside Little Big Planet. It's awesome that somebody was able to change the game up enough to create that. I just don't see why a huge group would rather play it inside LBP rather than play an actual FPS. (This may be a bad example, I'm not completely familiar with LBP.)
Your post did a lot to help answer that. I think can see why using some extra homebrewed RPG rules in Descent might be easier than playing premade adventures in say D&D. I was just trying to understand the urge, as it seems to be a popular one.
Steve-O said:
Of course, there's no guarantee that conquest still exists/works like it used to, either. If the rules are new then I'm sure FFG has thought of something appropriate. For example, if the rules requires an "awake" hero to come tag a "KO'd" hero before he can stand up, then surely the OL will win if all the heroes are KO'd at once. Maybe there's no more score-keeping, just an all out brawl to see who's the last man standing.
Well, according to the list of actions, a hero can stand up if he does nothing else this turn, so he doesn't need his buddies to tag him up.
Up the Irons!
Columbob said:
Steve-O said:
Of course, there's no guarantee that conquest still exists/works like it used to, either. If the rules are new then I'm sure FFG has thought of something appropriate. For example, if the rules requires an "awake" hero to come tag a "KO'd" hero before he can stand up, then surely the OL will win if all the heroes are KO'd at once. Maybe there's no more score-keeping, just an all out brawl to see who's the last man standing.
Well, according to the list of actions, a hero can stand up if he does nothing else this turn, so he doesn't need his buddies to tag him up.
The article doesn't say "if he does nothing else this turn". It says it is the only action a knocked out hero can take. So if a knocked out hero does this as his first action, he is then no longer knocked out and can choose something else for his second action.
So I'm wondering what the difference is between standing yourself up and getting a comrade to stand you up...?
Want to use more expansion monsters in a RtL campaign? Download my dungeon level loadout sheet. Want more varied and interesting abilities for the heroes? Have a look at my Craft cards! After a more thematic Android experience? Check out Android: The Directors Cut. Tired of the same old plots? Try The Directors Cut - Alternate Plots. Want a different way to play BSG: Pegasus? Look at Pegasus: Razor Cut.
Bleached Lizard said:
Columbob said:
Steve-O said:
Of course, there's no guarantee that conquest still exists/works like it used to, either. If the rules are new then I'm sure FFG has thought of something appropriate. For example, if the rules requires an "awake" hero to come tag a "KO'd" hero before he can stand up, then surely the OL will win if all the heroes are KO'd at once. Maybe there's no more score-keeping, just an all out brawl to see who's the last man standing.
Well, according to the list of actions, a hero can stand up if he does nothing else this turn, so he doesn't need his buddies to tag him up.
The article doesn't say "if he does nothing else this turn". It says it is the only action a knocked out hero can take. So if a knocked out hero does this as his first action, he is then no longer knocked out and can choose something else for his second action.
So I'm wondering what the difference is between standing yourself up and getting a comrade to stand you up...?
Also, there may be some characters that get bonus' for doing that. Say a healer character that heals back additional wounds when they are the ones to stand up a character, for example.
I am kind of sad with these first previews of the game. Sure they are informative, but to me the people who end up buying the game will probably end up being the OL so I wish they would have previewed that part of the game first. I hope they release information about the game play for the OL soon.
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