Atheosis said:

The Inquisition has ranks, just like everything else and if you've read the Eisenhorn trilogy then you know Inquisitor Lord is a 'rank'. It‘s the person within an Ordo who tells the other Inquisitors what to do and if there is a dispute between two Inquisitors he/she decides it. This is also the person who has command of the Inquisitors when two Ordo‘s are forced to work together; the highest ranking Inquisitor in the field no matter the Ordo is in charge. And if two or more share the same rank then it’s the one with the seniority.

Who do you think excommunicates the Reneged chapters or fallen Inquisitors? A Inquisitor challenges the chapter and then there is a trial, if found guilty by a tribunal of high ranking Inquisitor then the order comes down from the Inquisitor Lord of the Ordo Hereticus, who would be the highest ranking member of the Ordo Herecticus in the sector in which the trial is taking place. Read the Soul Drinkers stories and you see this same thing, a sufficiently high ranking Inquisitor takes on the chapter and he has the pull and power to bring them to question before a shot is fired; true they attack and that's what sets the events off but it was because they knew he was bring his rank to bear. (And your assertion that Chapters would unite to keep a possible renegade chapter from being brought down is not only wrong but absurd. The whole of the Badab War was one group being accused by the Inquisition and others rallying against them, only a hand full joined them to “maintain their autonomy.” Most Chapters are more prone to attack a possible Heretic chapter on the word of an Inquisitor than side with it. What’s that old Marine moto, “Kill them all, let God sort them out?”)

And starting your post with, “Err…” as if I’m just another forum posting idiot is kind of rude, I may be taking it wrong and if that’s the case I’m sorry (Also if I sound rude in this my apologies, that is not my intent). But I know my stuff, I’ve read nearly all of the Imperial Guard novels by Black Library, the full Ciaphas Cain series and Gaunt’s Ghost works, The Soul Drinkers Omnibus, the Inquisition War trilogy the Ultramarine stories, and the Eisenhorn trilogy; with many other tails besides... Oh and my table top army is a Which Hunter force. I know my stuff. I’m not an expert and certainly not infallible but I‘m also not some guy whose only brush with 40K is what he learned from DH and RT, which is not the end all be all of 40K.
 

I've never understood why so many people feel the need to argue over the semantics of a fictional universe. Especially since the background of 40k is contradictory in different books by different authors and has even altered between various editions of the game.

I have no idea exactly what material will be included in this book, but as a player and GM I would be very tempted to scrap the idea of Deathwatch for a campaign altogether. I think it would be far more varied and fun to base the SM characters around Alpha Legion SMs and wage covert and open war (depending on the occasion) against the Imperium. You could have missions of implanting sedition on planets, tracking down unholy artefacts, assasination missions of high ranking Imperial officials, other SMs, the list is endless. And who wouldn't enjoy giving the Imperium a bloody nose!? :D

craigpearson81 said:

Heretic!! lol, just messing around, but I as GM was thinking about that myself, just running a game that had my players all from the same chapter could be really cool.

Yeah I think you're right, that idea in general could be very good, and maybe even open up more possibilities to the game. Just because the Deathwatch are an elite anti-xenos task force, who is to say that other SM chapters don't act in the same way within a more localised setting!?

TCBC Freak said:

Please refer to this article: wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Inquisition

Read the section on Inquisitorial ranks. An Inquisitor Lord really isn't what you think it is.

Oh and Badab is a good example of what can go wrong when going after a rogue Chapter (and the Astral Claws weren't a well known or particularly honored Chapter).  Imagine if the Inquisition went after the Ultramarines...it would get real ugly real fast...

BrotherAtrox said:

Actually I see absolutely no reason why not.

Deathwatch is not an independent organization. It is the military arm of Ordo Xenos and it is expected to carry out any and all orders Inquisitors of Ordo Xenos give to them. They are not expected to ponder the fine points of Imperial bureaucracy as to why is exactly this mission more important tan, for example, going to kill x-billion orks of Waagh! Whats-its-name.

So okay, Inquisitor orders them to save the kid. They don't ask why. Maybe its because the kids father has some xeno artifacts in his collection and this is the deal he made with our Inquisitor. Or maybe the Inquisitor knows the kids father has some xeno artifacts and Inquisitor wants to collect some IOUs... or maybe the kid knows something important about his fathers collection and what kind of filthy xenos he has dealt with.... Listen sir, I just need to know *one thing*... Where. The. Xenos. Are?

"Usually, a Deathwatch team is led by an Inquisitor, but in extreme circumstances, a Deathwatch Captain or Librarian may take command of the unit. Their word is law, and can requisition anything they desire to get the job done."

Atheosis said:

The lexicanium is not set in stone, just like a wikipedia page it can be altered and often contains informantion from persious texts, as far as fluff goes, the GW codex for demon hunters states there are in fact ranks, and that the inquisitor can recqustion forces from any imperial organization, espically since the orde xenos is a part of the organization called the Inquisition, an inquisitor can use any part he needs

i also feel insulted in the manner in which you responed to my post (if i am in error with you intention my aplogizes) it was a simple clarification for some game ideas

forward unto dawn said:

Sorry you feel insulted.  Not sure why you do, but oh well.

Anyway what you're saying is that you want to ignore materials that contradict your position(s) while focusing on whatever you believes supports it.  That's fine, but don't try to pass it off as what the official material states.  I referenced you to the Lexicanum which uses official material, and you choose to dismiss it.  That's fine.  If you are running a game and prefer a setting where the Inquisition is a strictly heirarchical organization, and the Astartes (Deathwatch included) and Mechanicus do whatever an Inquisitor tells them, that's fine.  That's not the official story, but you have the freedom to do whatever you like.

Atheosis said:

After looking through Lexicanum it says the following:

"If required, Inquisitors may call on the service and/or resources of any Imperial servant or organization. Not even a High Lord of Terra may refuse the order of an Inquisitor without good reason. This power extends across the Adeptus Astartes and the Adeptus Mechanicus, however learned Inquisitors show discretion and request the assistance of the Space Marines and attempt not to anger the Adepts of Mars."

This suggests the Astartes and the Mechanicum are not free to refuse assistance, it is just considered polite to make a request rather than demand.

I don't think it is what you say that causes is taken as an insult. As someone looking from the outside of this arguement, your replies do come across as preaching and treating everyone elses views as rediculuous because they differ from your own. I doubt this is intended, but I can see why people feel that way, especially as tone is lost in text.

craigpearson81 said:

Your views are ridiculous.

The issue of whether or not Inquisitors can order around the Astartes is a bit muddy.  To quote Lexicanum's article on them: "Ultimately the Chapter is subject to the orders of the highest-ranking among the Adeptus Terra, although only in a general sense."  A highly vague and suspect endorsement of any kind of authority over Astartes.  As the Inquisition's authority is ultimately derived from the Adeptus Terra, one can see why Inquisitors request aid rather than demanding it.  At the same time, Chapters that develop the habit of refusing to aid Inquisitors are playing a very dangerous game because the Inquisition does have the power to declare them Excommunicate Traitoris.  Usually it takes quite a bit for this to happen though.

As far as the Mechanicus go: 

"While the Adeptus Mechanicus is a part of the Imperium, it has developed separately and enjoys a considerable degree of independence. Due to the great amount power it wields, the Adeptus Mechanicus is more like an allied empire than an organization within the Imperium."

The Inquisition can really have issues with dealing with the AdMech because, in the end, they have so much power and independence.  Once again members of the Mechanicus can be declared traitor, but it can get very hairy.

Ultimately in these cases the absolute nature of Inquisitorial power has to be seen as something of an illusion.  While as an organization they have virtually limitless power, individual Inquisitors are rather limited by the forces they can muster to enforce their will.  A single Inquisitor is highly unlikely to have the overarching influence necessary to actually pursue a vendetta against the Mechanicus or Astartes, and must rely on his brethren for support.  If said brethren see his demands as unreasonable or unnecessary then ultimately very little is likely to come of it.

I think this is one of the reasons why I tend to avoid debates over the background of 40K. Being a fictional universe, nothing is set in stone and fluff will vary depending how much knowledge the author producing the newest book has about the background.

I could come out with something totally rediculous and say I want half of the Imperial Guard regiment I command to be made up of beastmen. In (I think)1st and 2nd edition 40k, but definately Epic, beastmen were perfectly accepted members of the Imperial Guard.

And I would like to withdraw my statement about tone. The winking smilie settles that completely.

I made up a pretty good idea for a campaign, the idea is that the sqaud is sent to a space hulk to retrieve an ancient and powerful artifact, at first what seems to be a simple mission gets very complicated as the hulk remerges into the warp with the marines inside. From there the marines become devoted to mission and must keep and hold the relic till the hulk reemerges in real space, without the support from there superiors they will have no new ammo or power for there armour then what they had when they walked in. There adversaries: A tyranid hive, some eldar scouts, an ork colony native to the hulk and some ork looters from another clan, a tau expedition and a chaos cult. All are tasked  with the retrieval of the relic.

reidchapman said:

Quite a potpourri you have there.  Should be interesting.

By the way Astartes armour has a fusion reactor in it so it doesn't really run out of power.

damn, I wanted to force the PC's to wear xeno armour as they became ever more desperate. Although they do not have infinite ammo so they will have to scrounge for guns, by the end of the campaign I''m expecting the heroes to be whereing tyranid hives with ork shoulder pads and wielding burnas, shootas, railguns and the captain of the sqaud has his mighty laspistol and powerless chainsword. Let's not forget the fact that theres an eldar ranger helping them and you probably shouldn't ask why the "Tech Marine" is green (likes to call himself a Mek Marine)

The potential interest comes not in the mad battle royal but the Space Marines being forced to make allies with the very creatures there made to hate.

reidchapman said:

Don't forget, you as GM can't force the players to do anything. A good GM has an idea and makes the player think they came up with it, lol. I had a problem once where I had planned on my DH team working with some Kroot, the Kroot Captain came to them and they killed him before he could get a word in. I had to adapt the whole idea cause the Kroot now wanted to kill the team. I do think it an intresting idea.