I just don't think removing Verena would be enough (however I strongly support the idea it should be banned or have errata or exchanged with Empire Epic Spell, it looks like similar power level to the other epics ;D). To be completely honest I do not like every a-bombs, i.e. Troll Vomit (and it even has nothing to do with their true competitive potential, I just do not like the idea of hard reset). But JoV is probably the worst right now, I agree.

Nevertheless, in my opinion, even with Verena removed, Empire still has the best, relatively cheap control over game elements, sniping supports with Rodrik's and moving/recalling units with many other cheap cards in the same time makes this faction truly formidable. Adding Churches and Iron Will for protection…

I think other factions lack this flexibility, in general. There is nearly always something, that they are practically helpless against, at least without some sophisticated/expensive combo. When I play Dwarves, units (like first-turn Sorcerer of Tzeentch for example) hurt me very much and I don't really have viable option to get rid of them (or have I?). When I play hp-reducing Dark Elves, all support cards hurts me badly, as only thing I can control are units, etc. Empire is flexible and I think only deck-discarding Dark Elves are more annoying than Karl-Franz's minions right now (personal opinion, I hate discard face of Delves :P)

"And it leaves enough room for another strategy (control, rush) and a good economy."

- No, it doesn't. Empire needs either Derricksburg or Warpstone for it's economy so it shouldn't take Will from the restricted list.

"Our other decks already includes anti-verena solutions but it takes deck slots or forces to play development-based strategies. All strategies can be countered by another global strategy like unit control. Your cards used to control rush decks are usualy also useful against other strategies. Judgement of Verena is an exception. This single card forces all strategies to use development control (in a lesser way) and this control is quite exclusively reserved for this card."

- Development control is just another type of control, the same as units and supports. You say if it wasn't for Verena you wouldn't take development control at all. So you would lose every time to UTS Chaos.

"That's why I would have ban it (and not restrict so much cards)."

- Every empire card got on the restriction list for a reason. I wasn't sure about Will but not having to take 3xLong Winter in every deck is a nice thing I guess. I could think about swapping Wilhelm with Friedrich and that's it.

"First you buy Wilhelm or Derricksburg Forge and minute later you find out you are not able to use them."

- We already discussed it. Better have cards restricted or even banned than force them to quit the game.

"I think that generally speaking Empire strenght is the potential ablility to control both units and supports (i.e. Osterknacht Elite, Rodrik Raiders + nasty tactics allowing them show up again and again), most other decks lack this. Add some support control possibilities to Dark Elves or some unit control chance to Orcs or Dwarves and Empire would be "stopped"."

It is already stopped. Restrictions for Forge, Rodrik and Will fixed it. Making every faction good in every field would just create more pre-restrictions Empires…

"When I play hp-reducing Dark Elves, all support cards hurts me badly, as only thing I can control are units,"

- Burn It Down/Withering Hex?

 Current imperial economy with Will of the electors : Sons of coin, Hunters, Village, Knights Panther, Zoo (although not starting). Sons of coin replaced Forge or Excavation.

What is UTS chaos please?

Iif UTS stands for Unleashing the spell, I've never faced such a deck unfortunately. But it seems to be a late game Tactics and above all it doesn't prevent your opponent from playing.

Virgo said:

Maybe "Better than (…)", but still unpleasant. :P

 Virgo said:

I don't know if it is stopped, really, I still find it pretty hard to play against.

In my opinion Rodrik's as most valuable of restricted card (even though I miss Wilhelm and wasn't even able to actually use Forge, as I bought it a while before restricts… so please understand a little bit of frustration here. :)

Anyway, I still have both support and unit control in one deck, both partially in form of units (Osterknacht Elite + Rodrik Raiders), which can be placed in many roles - boosts my own economy, defend or attack, while destroying effectively opponents eco in the same time. I would call it quite superior flexibility.

Virgo said:

Yeah, but you will agree, that Rodrik's is SO much better option than Burn it Down, don't you? Besides, in Empire deck you can have both, if you really want, but even more funny - with Empire tactics and units controls (Osterknacht Elite again for example, or Call for Reserves… or Called Back, or…) you can use one Rodrik a few times, other factions won't do this with Burn it Down, not to mention developments needed. A side note is that tactics like Call for Reserves or Mastering the spell are also very flexible and could be used in many, many different situations…

Withering Hex - I put this card into category: "only because I don't have anything better". Unfortunately, not all supports would be pain because of their hammers only, a lot of them are dangerous just because they exists.

Of course I don't say that Empire is auto-winner or anything like that, however I do say the overall flexibility, multitude of options, gives this faction upper hand, advantage. Maybe slight, but still SOME advantage.

P.S. By the way, last evening I was kicked a few times by friend playing my Empire against newly assembled DarkElf/Necromancy deck I wanted to check, as well as a few other decks I assembled to try them in fight, some of them built for fun, some more "serious". Damn, and this guy played only for his third or fourth time! Shame… :>

Ellyrik said:

You can't really say that Sons Of Coin or Knight Panther replaced Forge, because these are units and they die the next turn against Chaos and the same turn they hit the table against DE

Virgo said:

@ Paradoks: i totally agree with your last post!