Hi

  Whilst soaking up the horror in Soul Reaver, I got thinking about crew sizes on Dark Eldar ships.  I know human ships have 10s of thousands but what about Dark Eldar ships?  Any thoughts about it?

Many dark thanks,

AlexE

If we're only speaking about Dark Eldar, then probably quite small. However, it will probably be full of slaves, since Dark Eldar tend to view menial tasks to be beneath them. Most likely the only Dark Eldar on board will be the ship's equivalent of a captain, his retinue of "trusted" advisors and bodyguards, operators for systems that cannot be trusted upon dumb primitives like gunnery, scanners and navigation, and a few hundreds of raiders, perhaps more than a thousand inside a cruiser. 

alexe74 said:

My personal interpretation is that Eldar starship crews are at least an order of magnitude smaller than those on Imperial ships, and likely more. Craftworlder and Corsair vessels (being constructed from wraithbone and having their own infinity circuits containing the souls of past crew) need very few living crew, and most activities pertaining to the ship are done in a form of psychic communion with the infinity circuit rather than through manipulating controls and operating machinery.

Dark Eldar vessels, given that the Dark Eldar themselves have psychically atrophied, are sophisticated but not psychoreactve, so they require larger crews and more physical manipulation of the ship's systems, but I imagine that most of this will be done by slaves and Dark Eldar of lesser standing, leaving the Kabalite Warriors, etc, free to prepare for boarding actions, raiding and so forth.

So, while completely unofficial, my personal rule of thumb would be that a Craftworlder or Corsair vessel (those in Battlefleet Koronus) tend to have crew compliments of several hundred (about 1% the size of an equivalent Imperial vessel), while Dark Eldar vessels will have compliments of several thousand (about 10% that of an equivalent Imperial vessel).

On a related note, Ork vessels should reasonably carry crew compliments (remembering that the crew are Orks and thus innately combat-ready, rather than having a distinct group of armsmen) at least 1.5 times the size of comparable Imperial vessels, and far more if you include gretchin slaves.

N0-1_H3r3 said:

Fgdsfg said:

Some Eldar vessels, specially those from Alaitoc, are called Ghostships and are crewed mostly by the souls of the dead, so their living crew numbers in the low dozens.

JuankiMan said:

Fgdsfg said:

The values I listed did include slaves and the like, for reference.

That said, while I imagine Dark Eldar (and, similarly, Tau) vessels as being far closer to the "conventional sci-fi starship" in terms of function and crew compliments, Eldar ships have always struck me as distinct in this way. The psychoreactive nature of Eldar technology, as much as its advanced nature, distinguishes it from the more common trappings of science fiction. Eldar technology responds to thought and mood, and especially when driven by the souls of the departed, it responds in a natural, instinctive manner, more akin to a living creature than a machine. Considering the size of 40k starships (even Eldar ones), I regard Eldar vessels as having an unusually small crew due to the manner in which they function.

Eldar technology - the real Eldar technology, rather than the advanced-but-mundane devices that the Dark Eldar employ (devices based on Eldar science, but wrought by slave labour rather than a Bonesinger's influence) - is an odd concept, because it isn't quite technology in the conventional sense. The Eldar, since some of their earliest description in the background, are described as having had no defined 'tool-making' or 'industrial revolution' stages of their cultural development - pre-historic Eldar used their natural psychic talent to influence the world around them, creating shelters, cultivating food, etc, developing tools to extend the impact of their powers as necessary. Viewed in that light, Eldar technology should be regarded as an extension of the will of the Eldar themselves, a natural outgrowth of their bodies and minds.

Fgdsfg said:

Not really. They're commonly employed by the Iyanden craftworld (not the Alaitocii, as JuankiMan mis-stated - easy enough mistake to make, though), due to the craftworld's diminished populace after the assault of the Tyranids. The concept is essentially little different from that of a Wraithguard or Wraithlord (an inanimate wraithbone construct driven by the soul of a dead Eldar), just on a much larger scale. Having a small number of living Eldar present is useful in this regard - while no less intelligent or driven than their living counterparts, the souls of dead Eldar no longer possess the physical perspectives they once had, so communion with living Eldar souls helps them focus on the material universe. It's why Wraithguard units are often accompanied by Warlocks in battle - the Warlock's mind anchors and focusses the souls of the Wraithguard. Eldar Titans (properly known as Caurifeliann, with Eldar Titan clans known as Fir Caurifel) function in a similar manner - an Infinity Circuit animating the war engine, guided by living minds to give clarity and focus.

N0-1_H3r3 said:

My bad 

N0-1_H3r3 said:

N0-1_H3r3 said:

Unless I misread, most DE slaves (especially those that would count as part of a starship's crew) are DE - it's a social class among them. These are still more highly regarded than the more 'disposable' slaves captured from other races and used specifically for painfood.

HappyDaze said:

Really? I'm not surprised that the Dark Eldar would try to enslave their own, but I do find surprising that a Dark Eldar could be sufficiently broken as to reliably assign him labor.

JuankiMan said:

It is better to be feared than respected. DE rule by fear, and it's a pyramid scheme with the Archon at the top, but even the basic Kabalite Warrior is far above the masses of DE.

Fgdsfg said:

You gotta look at it compared to the alternatives: you can have your soul eaten by Slaanesh and spend an eternity in his sexy, painful embrace, or you can let your soul be swallowed by a crystal and spend eternity hanging out with other dead Eldar, helping the living, or even possibly piloting a sweet spaceship. I know what I would choose given a choice :-P

HTMC said:

I don't think he meant disturbing for the spirits themselves but for the people looking from the outside. It must be creepy as hell going through a kilometer long ship that's completely empty, its corridors and rooms completely deserted but still funtioning, and you're constantly feeling watched, observed, like the very walls around you are alive.

It'd be like entering a haunted house. A haunted house that traverses the stars and has enough firepower to level a city.

Thanks for all the inputs!

I was figuring about 200-500 DE (depending on ship size) + slaves (expendible ones might be used for dirty jobs in areas of radiation exposure etc and of cousre the DE have got to "eat"!).

My motive was for a Deathwatch scenario with a group of Marines on a Corsair Escort.  Anyone who's played DW knows those guys can go through the fodder a bit and it got me think just how many DE ARE on a ship because a group of marines might get close to killing most of them!!!

Anyway, it'll be a cool scenario with some nice "Boss" DE added for spice (they have some very cool weapons that will make marines worried!)

Cheers

AlexE