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Dark Heresy Rules Questions
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Why take Precognitive Dodge …
Published on 29 October 2012 - 00:58:21

… when Distort Vision does it better?

Both are Free Actions, neither are sustainable.

Precog. Dodge only works v. Ranged attacks, whilst  Distort Vision works on all attacks, and is easier to manifest as well as being cheaper (minor power as opposed to a full Discipline power).

Am I missing something?

Tarald - The Dark Lord of Smeg
You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on

Author of the Players Datapad & The Excel Combat Datapad
Darth Smeg's House rules for playing DH with OW rules

 

 

 

 

Page 1 of 2 (27 messages) 1 2 ...Last page »
Reply #1 | Published on 30 October 2012 - 18:11:59
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Nope, you're right. It doesn't make sense. Suggested changes (pick the ones you like :) ):

DV is removed altogether.

DV only effect one enemy, while PD effects all hostiles.

PD works against all incoming attacks.

DVs obfuscating effect is weakened to -10.

The effect of DV is immediatly broken if he attacks, while PD isn't.

PD lasts for Psy rating x0.5-1 rounds (rounded up)

PD can be cast on others.

PD increases Dodge by +30 instead of decreasing the BS of the attackers (or maybe the minor power should increase the casters ability and the major power should lower the ability of the enemies).

I used to be an acolyte like you, then I took a bolt shell to the knee.

Reply #2 | Published on 31 October 2012 - 16:41:58
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I am not sure off the top of my head, but I think the errata changed how the minor ability worked, so it was much less effective.

"It's what we do ... we live, fight and die at the God-Emperor's grace" 

-- Mardenicvs Aneas Rexvs, Ordos Xenos, shortly before his death

Reply #3 | Published on 01 November 2012 - 02:13:23

True, I was referring to the "reduced" version. Originally, it would make you appear 10m beside your actual position, and everyone would miss. Period.

The only upside to Precog. Dodge I can see, is that it lasts until "the end of your next turn", whereas Distort Vision lasts until the start of your next turn. Though I can't think of any situation where that might make a difference.  

Tarald - The Dark Lord of Smeg
You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on

Author of the Players Datapad & The Excel Combat Datapad
Darth Smeg's House rules for playing DH with OW rules

 

 

 

 

Reply #4 | Published on 01 November 2012 - 08:40:04

I've always played PD to be sustainable and applied it to both melee and ranged attacks- which should make it much, MUCH better.

Not to mention, a piece of gear like Infra-red or anything like that breaks the minor power, whereas the other plays more like an actual Psyker seeing the future and positioning himself as to avoid being in harms way reflexively. 

But I haven't had a Psyker go into that branch yet, but I am planning to have a Psyker kick the group's ass soon, and he's going to have it. 

 

"Even the defeated pretend to elevate their wisdom and words"

Reply #5 | Published on 01 November 2012 - 10:44:47

 Pretty sure that PD cant be cast on anyone other then yourself .. sadly.. I wish there were more powers to use on your group :(

Without Signature
Reply #6 | Published on 30 January 2013 - 20:38:47
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Errata reads as follows:

 

With this power your physical form distorts and you almost fade from view. Your precise location becomes extremely difficult to discern, and until the start of your next turn all attacks against you suffer a –30 penalty to hit. Characters with the Blind Fighting Talent only suffer a –10 penalty. A successful Challenging (+0) Psyniscience Test removes this penalty for the attacker. Sensory equipment based on standard optical sensors are fooled by this power; ones that read thermal patterns, use motion sensors, or rely on some other form of detection are not. Creatures and sensors that do not rely on sight are not affected by this power.

 

Enjoy.

"IT IS ALWAYS TIME FOR WAR"!

Reply #7 | Published on 31 January 2013 - 01:05:41

If you see post #3 in this thread, I was referring to the Errata version of the power. 

Before the Errata it was even better. But even now, after revision, the Minor Power is more powerful than the more expensive Discipline one.

Tarald - The Dark Lord of Smeg
You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on

Author of the Players Datapad & The Excel Combat Datapad
Darth Smeg's House rules for playing DH with OW rules

 

 

 

 

Reply #8 | Published on 31 January 2013 - 07:20:23
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two words:

they stack.

Adeptus mechanicus contains lunatics with high restrictions, fanatics who follow the machine god… I am the same, except no restrictions.

Reply #9 | Published on 31 January 2013 - 10:21:56
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Precognitive dodge is a reaction while distort vision takes a free action to use, meaning you have to use distort vision on your turn and sustain it during the opponents action while precognitive dodge can be used as your reaction.

Also dont forget that according to the errata "A Psyker may manifest only one ability per Round…" In my group we change that slightly and allow the psyker to use reaction powers even if he has already used another power, so as not to render reaction powers useless.

Do you hear the voices too?

Reply #10 | Published on 01 February 2013 - 01:49:56

PnPgamer said:

two words:

they stack.

You can only focus one power each round, and as neither are sustainable, they cannot stack.

Tarald - The Dark Lord of Smeg
You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on

Author of the Players Datapad & The Excel Combat Datapad
Darth Smeg's House rules for playing DH with OW rules

 

 

 

 

Reply #11 | Published on 01 February 2013 - 01:57:21

Humanas said:

Precognitive dodge is a reaction…

Not so.

From the Dark Heresy Rulebook, p 172
"Precognitive Dodge

Threshold: 11
Focus Time: Free Action
Sustained: No"
 
I cannot see anything in the Errata v3.0 that changes this.
 
As far as I can tell, the only situations where Precog. Dodge would be better is where you are being shot at by a person with either a thermal/motion sensor or is skilled in Psynisciense.
 
In all other situations, the cheaper and simpler Minor Power is as good, or better.

Tarald - The Dark Lord of Smeg
You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on

Author of the Players Datapad & The Excel Combat Datapad
Darth Smeg's House rules for playing DH with OW rules

 

 

 

 

Reply #12 | Published on 01 February 2013 - 08:11:07
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Oups, my bad! You are right, Tzeentch tricked me into believing Precognitive Dodge was a reaction.

And yes it is really weak right now, are there any other similar powers in other books so we can compare and maybe rework it ?

Do you hear the voices too?

Reply #13 | Published on 01 February 2013 - 08:56:53

Well, sneaking a peak at Only War, the most similar power there would be:

FOREBODING

 

Value: 200xp
Prerequisites: Psyniscience Rank 1
Action: Reaction
Focus Power: Difficult (–10) Perception Test
Range: Self
Sustained: No
Subtype: Concentration
Description: The psyker’s awareness of the Warp grants him the means to elude his opponents’ attacks without needing to rely on mortal reflexes. He
walks through the battlefield unscathed, dodging incoming fire with a simple ease. In any situation where the psyker would be called upon to make an Evasion Test, he may instead attempt to use this power. If the power is successful, the psyker avoids the attack exactly as if he has passed an Evasion Test.
 
Of course, the focusing rules are completely different, but this basically lets the Psyker use his preferred stats, boosted by his Psy Rating, to Dodge, instead of relying on Agility and the Dodge skill.
 
But I'm not convinced. I think the problem is that many DH Minor Powers are VERY useful. But as Psykers in DH don't get discipline powers until rank 3 or so, it's kinda necessary that they be.
 
But I think perhaps a minor power resulting on -30 to all attacks is a bit much. Perhaps distort vision needs further nerfing. -10 or -20 perhaps. 
And Precog Dodge could use a boots, and I don't see why it shouldn't help against melee opponents.

Tarald - The Dark Lord of Smeg
You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on

Author of the Players Datapad & The Excel Combat Datapad
Darth Smeg's House rules for playing DH with OW rules

 

 

 

 

Reply #14 | Published on 01 February 2013 - 11:12:51
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As far as defensive minor powers go, there is chameleon and precognition plus distort vision. I find the other two to be very effective by themeselves so maybe distort vision needs to go or become a discipline power ?

Do you hear the voices too?

Reply #15 | Published on 02 February 2013 - 00:37:04
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Darth Smeg said:

 

PnPgamer said:

 

two words:

they stack.

 

 

You can only focus one power each round, and as neither are sustainable, they cannot stack.

 

 

weren't that only on the case of attacks/attack type of powers?

Also precognitive dodge can be useful when trying to get into discipline mastery (which also reduces its power threshold into 6, but doesn't matter at that point anymore) as you need every power in core book to achieve that. Also, precognitive dodge is undisableable. And instead of a pussy that hides beyond mundane sight, you do cool matrix moves.

Adeptus mechanicus contains lunatics with high restrictions, fanatics who follow the machine god… I am the same, except no restrictions.

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