What kind of bolters do they use, can they bench a Sister of Battle, are they human, abhuman, something more than human, prick them do they not bleed, wrong them will they not revenge, are they all psychotic, mindless killing drones, are they not l337!1 w0071!!, can they be roleplayed? Can a thousand Dark Eldar with a thousand Splinter Rifles and a Thousand Years wound one?

Here is the place for all things Space Marine!!! No Dark Hersy Forum would be complete without it.

About damn time.

And Ill say this again.

IG and DE can kill a SM its just unlikely.

Fix it Ross.

So why are there no rulles for playing SM in DH?

SPESS MEHREENS!!11!

FOR TEH EMPRAH!!!121!!

Because that would make Deathwatch much less interesting now, wouldn`t it?

Nile said:

Because they are too powerful.  Either everyone would want to play one, or whoever was the Space Marine in the group would become the hero.  Plus, I can imagine that players wanting to play SM characters would start demanding the power armour and weapons - resulting in powergaming. 

So um...   How do you even (role)play a über brainwashed (at least 90 decrees celsius) gene-manipulated 3 meters tall heap of ugly muscle, wielding the most powerful arms and armor known to mankind? Land in a drop-pod, shoot the crap out of stuff, lift cultists up from their hair and spit their faces off...? Then prance around saying prayers and get home in time for tea & mind clensing.

Nile said:

There is ThePatriot's co-authored endevour, I think it may be at Unearthed Apocrapha or you can also nab it here. They are 'un-offical' but rules none-the-less.

Wilfred Owen said:

Yeah because that's not an issue with say... *looks around for Lynata* Sisters of Battle.

Wu Ming said:

I so hope you have Dodge +20

Wilfred Owen said:

Why does everyone automatically assume that just because they might be available, everyone wants to play a Space Marine?  Or that even if they do want to play a Space Marine, they're going to go around power-gaming?

Also, why are they any less RP-worthy than, say, a psyker?  Or a zealot priest?  Or an Inquisitor?

Seems to me that one of the iconic images of the 40k universe, one that GW have gone to the ends of the Earth to make more human are getting somewhat of a bad press.  

Kage

Kage2020 said:

Kage2020, I'm not saying that they are any less roleplay worthy than any other career - and if I implied that in an earlier post, than I was in error.  But the fact remains that Space Marines are simply too imbalaced compared to the careers presented in DH.  I do not deny that they are the most iconic element of the 40k universe - certainly, that is what the sales figures say - but SMs simply cannot be included, in my opinion, with what we have at the moment.  Of course, more mature player groups could accommodate a SM player character easily; however, not every group is like that.  I guess, that's why DH never included SMs. 

Now that was a post that was most tempered, especially given how one could see my own comments as critical of your original post.  I just love it when the forumites work as we should!

Wilfred Owen said:

I don't think that you did.  However, this thread was generated in angst by Wu Ming because he was peeved that people were organically developing his thread on the recent podcast.  Thus I believe it was my picking up on some of the general "sense" of posts that are posted on this matter.  My bad for that, so my apologies.

Wilfred Owen said:

Are you sure?  Although I'm (seriously) not a fan of ThePatriot's efforts at Space Marines, s/he presents an approach to Space Marines that basically "balances them out" at about - what? - level 5?

So, why do you feel that they are so un-balanced with regards to the Dark Heresy?  Obviously if one goes purely with the focus of the game ("Cassocks in Space" investigative horror) then it isn't going to work, but if one is to argue that Dark Heresy is 40k RPG, or at least the "Tier 1" basis of it?  Well, that might be a more palatable question...

Wilfred Owen said:

Forgive me for jumping on this, but are you suggesting tthat Dark Heresy was designed for immature players?  

Kage

Kage2020 said:

1) Because they were way too much beloved by the kind of people who wanted to play the dragon in D&D?    In all seriousness, I am sure there are a lot of people who would do a fine job with them, when contained in the appropriate game and setting / power level for them (as already eloquently articulated by others in this thread).

2) As far as RP-worthy, well that's in the eye of the beholder.  I have 0 interest in playing one.  The wiggle room I would have to work with to develop backstory and personality would not allow me to develop the kind of character I like to play.  But I feel the same way about Sororitas.  That doesn't mean either one shouldn't be developed as a playable character in a game appropriate to their power level, just that I personally don't want to play one.

Some of my fellow players in the group where I play will be waiting anxiously for years to see Deathwatch come out.  I only hope when it does, there will be options to play something else of comparable power level that is not a marine, because I would be bored playing one.  Lots of other people wouldn't.

Well I think playing space marines would be fun but I also think that a space marine player would get bored in an Acolyte group. In one of mine at least.


My quests are investigation based. No matter how hard he tries, sending a space marine in an investigation team (say in a suspected noble social circle or a bar in the slums or whatever like that) is aquin to sending a mad elephant inside a porcelain shop, with fireworks in it's ass. 
The big guy is BIG, he's packing HUMONGOUS weapons and he's got easely recognisable modifications that mark him as on of the Astartes. 

So then what, 

The group goes of saying: ''Hey Lucretius, call you when we find them''  then proceed to finding the bad guys wich is whenn they finaly (after hours of play) call him in ''Yeah so we're here and so are they, do your thing ''.

Alright, ti makes for awesome ''space marine to the rescue FOR THE EMPRAAAA'' scenes but the space marine still had nothing to do for hours.


an interesting twist would be an All space marine group with one normal guy who is able to go and do sneaky stuff to ''prepare the way for the big guys'' wich would, ironicaly, make him the ONE unreplaceable character in the group.


Sorry for my spelling but i'm french

Also to the first guy who posted: nice shakespear reference.

I lack the code saavy of Kage2020 so I am not even going to attempt to deal with the currently wonky quote system. A few quick points though:

I was less peevish at the threadjacking, which is to be expected in any forum and I think moreso in gaming forums were topics (like games) can ofetne quickly and unexpectedly veer off into uncharted and planned for terriotory (often to the enjoyment of all envoled.) But more to the tiresome (to me) and oft repeated 'Space Marine' um 'discourse' (?). Personally I am of the opinion that the concept that a majority of people have reagarding marines is completely incorrect. They are in my view no diffrent than a Psyker, Minostorium, Minotorium, Inquisition, Assassitorium, Mecnanicus or Soritas indoctronated individual all undergo various psycological and sometimes physical progroms intended to produce a very specif outcome as determined by the goals, views, and belifes / doctrines of a given orginisation.

Thi sis not to say that they are all the same in the level or degree of agumentiona and manipulatio applied but that they all basically set out to take a normal human (or psyker in the case of the Scolastic Psykana) and put them through the a preordainend process of indoctrnation and training and whatnot with the outcome being the idealised version of a person as outlined my the said orginisation.

However there seems to be a great deal of TT bagae I feel brough to the RPG table when it comes to Marines, and I really don't see why considering how often they can (and do loose) but that's besides the point. I think, maybe in part because they are so popular they get alot of backlash from those who want to be more 'original' or don't want to be a 'fanboi' ect. Marines seem to be the 'Sell Outs' of the Warhammer 40,000 univers to alot of fans as if they were that nice underground punk group you and mates 'discovered' at some seedy pub way back when and now they're on MTV and all the little kiddies think they're all the rave, and now you can't stand the bastards.

THAT's what my angst is about. That and the kind of assured and inevetable nature of the same basic 'revelations' and POVs about Marines (in specif to DH) occuring over and over through out the ages. That said I agree wit Kage202 regarding the 'Bad Press' angle and with aethel regarding Soritas and other DH 'character' types being no more or less Role Playable than another, although I think people cannot see, choose not to or just outright disagre on this point.

To me all of the Character options as presented by the the RAW for DH are esentially tropes with all the same baggae tying the hands of the player, however noone seems to have a problem with there Void Born or Mind Cleansed Psyker being just like the 100,000,000 other Psykers of the same background, same basic Statistical spreads same basic abilites ect. That is the true fruit of my 'angst' regarding this topic. That said, I still find myself (occasionally) reading the Space Marine or Las Vs. SP weapons or Human vs. Marine Bolter threads even though I am pretty sure I've read it all before (twice) in its varied incarnations.