I may have mispoken when I said space marines wouldn't be challenging to play. I think they might be too challenging and restricitve for most roleplayers to play (at least according to my vision of them).

Space marines are warrior monks, deeply dedicated to their monasthic side as well as their martial. They are the best trained and equipped soldiers in the imperium and they can fight enemies no one else can. So far this sounds like great fun, but when it comes to their personal motivations, the things that make them tick, I find that the thing that makes them space marines is also what makes them unsuitable as pc's.

When they are not off fighting the enemies of the emperor on a mission or campaign, the spend their days training, praying or maintaining their equipment. They don't go to the bar to blow off some steam. They don't dream of settling down one day and establishing a family on some distant agriworld. In short, they live, breathe and die for the chapter and thats it. They have no aspirations outside being the best soldier they can be. They are not human anymore. They are (in my opinon) one step up from robots

Jackal_Strain said:

Wouldn't that describe acolytes of the Inquisition though?

I mean its not like an acolyte phones in and says, 'sorry Inquisitor i'm going to be late in this morning, i've got to take the kids to the dentist.  Karen was doing it but she's got the flu so...i'll be in about 10am.  Can we delay the raid until this afternoon?'

'The guardians of a society can never belong to that society', etc.

Humans still have wants and desires, though. Space Marines, reputedly, don't. This obviously isn't a clear cut case, but it's largely true. My main concern with Space Marines as characters is that they're used purely as killing machines. You don't call in the marines to stand guard. You don't call them in to uncover heretical activity. You call them down when you know where the enemy is and want him eliminated, or when there's a breach that's just too tough for any mere human to hold. A pure space marine game would be very much epic battle after epic battle.

A Deathwatch kill-team attached to an Inquisitor could work, however. I remember reading one comic about just such a thing. There was some interesting interactions between the team, especially the marines of the Space Wolf and Dark Angel chapters. It did quickly boil down to "lots of killing needs to be done, epic foes to be faced," however, which is pretty much the marines' style. But I could see them essentially functioning in the Deathwatch RPG as Guardsmen do in DH, so there's no real problem there. But an entire group playing nothing but space marines still strikes me as somewhat limited in it's scope.

Snidesworth said:

That's not neccessarily the case.

The Ultramarines actually govern a secotr of the Imperium.  They presumably are therefore more than 'mere killing machines'?

The Red Hunters appear to spend a lot of time helping out the Inquistion, presumably not just with the strength of their bolters.

The Bloodquest comic sets the precedent of 'quests' for the Blood Angels at least.

Our view of SPESH MAAHRINES comes largely from the TT game.  A WARgame.  OF course the majority of fluff to date, and therefore the current view of marines is largely focussed on their killing ability.  Its why my current personal view of them is as 'innocents' and 'juveniles' in social terms away from the field of battle.

However, its clear that Ultramarines at least must be highly competent politicians and governors.

And moving into a roleplaying game requires the areas not previously thought about, focussed on, or included in the WARgame background to be explored and expanded.

So i'm quite prepared to look at space marines as highly complex and interesting characters...

Why don't they have other duties?  Emissaries, or advanced scouts.  Military advisors to planetary or sector governors.

Why don't they have roving 'investigator' teams? 

Who knows what secrets the chapters hold?  Who knows what their agenda is?  For sure the Dark Angels and Blood Angels have hidden agendas that would justify such teams roaming the imperium and beyond in search of answers.  Who knows what politicking and questing the Ultramarines might get up to?

And WHAT roleplaying opportunities!!

So many possibilities once you start to think beyond the cardboard cut-out SPESH MAAHRINE combat-munchkin model...

So you're telling me that the acolytes in your game only acts upon their mission parameters and never on their personal goals and ambitions?

Yup and there goes the classic Space Marine vapid, killing machine vs. Super bad assed person debate, I knew something was missing from the old forums...

Anyway back to the originally topic. For those like Charax that cannot deign to actually listen to an interview, and for those like me who can misunderstand things, I've transcribed some of the 'releveent' parts of the pod cast here you go ... I was suprised at how many times Veronica said 'Cool'.

==========================================

Veronica: Sooo originally when the 40K RPGs were announced, there were three that were proposed, what's the status of that original idea?

Ross: OK well Black Industries came out when they had the license and they said they were going to do three interconnected games Dark Heresy, Rogue Trader, and Death Watch. And the status is that Fantasy Flight is planning to do all three of those games.

Veronica: Cool

Ron: Very Cool.

Ross: I think it's awesome. I'm so psyched about the things we're doing with this license. It's just incredible.

Ron: And they all cover really different parts of the 40K universe if I remember correctly.

Ross: Absolutely. Dark Heresy as I said is a very narrow but deep slice of the setting and it shows you things that are related to the Inquisition and while big in the setting is not nearly as broad as some of the other concepts you'll find in Rogue Trader or Death Watch. So yeah, it will be a completely different game experience for each of those three.

Veronica: So next up would be Rogue Trader?

Ross: That's Right! We announced it at GenCon this year that it will be out at GenCon 2009.

Veronica: Ew cool. Is there anything you could tell us about that in advanced?

Ross: Ahhh, I wish I could --

Veronica: --That's OK.

Ross: All I can say is that we're doing a lot of really great work on it right now. And it is going to be; again it is going to be a completely different feel from Dark Heresy. And I guess the one thing I can say about it is this: Dark Heresy if you will is sort of Tier One. You are, In Dark Heresy you're just a normal guy whose been chosen by an Inquisitor and you will eventually become someone he trusts and a powerful member in the Inquisition. Rogue Trader, you're starting out as a competent, you know very competent and experienced member or example of whatever type of character that you are. So it's kind of Tier Two for Rogue Trader, and Death Watch is going to be basically higher than that, it's going to be Tier Three.

Ron: So will all the 40K RPGs be compatible with each other?

Ross: Ah, totally. That is one of our big design goals that if you are playing a Dark Heresy character and you want to join a Rogue Trader on his ship there will be rules n Rogue Trader telling you how to do that, and eventually when you get, when the next book comes out there will be rules for incorporating all the previous two as well in that one.

Veronica: Cool. So, so if you live long enough (Ross: laughing) than you can conceivably take a character all the way through all three levels?

Ross: Oh yes, yes. Absolutely.

Veronica: Very cool.

Ross: Although it's... you probably won't actually be a Space Marine; you'll probably just be hanging out with them, (laughing) in Death Watch.

Veronica & Ron: (Laughing)

Ron: Right.

Veronica: Standing behind them...

Ross: Well they need, you know, they need help and support too. So...

Veronica: very/way (?) cool. So what's coming up next for Dark Heresy?

Ross: I'm glad you asked. We just received a shipment of Disciples of the Dark Gods at Fantasy Flight which is the newest book and it's getting sent out to distributors like right away.

Veronica; Ron is over here doing a 'Happy Yes Dance' So--

Ross: --Very, very soon, very very soon on YOUR shelves Ron, very very soon you will see Disciples of the Dark Gods.

Ron: Awesome.

Ross: And in my opinion that's a great book, I know I'm very biased, so I, full disclosure here. Yes I'm biased in my opinion but-- (Veronica laughs) having been a gamer for a really long time I was, I was impressed by the content in this book it reminds me, very favourably, reminds me of the Delta Green Countdown book--

Ron: --Nice.

Ross: It’s a collection of conspiracies, cults, and secrets in the Calixis Sector. All these sort of organisations that a Game Master can use for the Acolytes, the Dark Heresy Acolytes to investigate. To destroy, to oppose, to threaten. And there's even a section in there for kind of a most wanted heretics of the C- of the sector, which is one of my personal favourites. Its got some really amazing cool bad guys in there and you can just flip to the page, even better its got this just fantastic artwork by Andrea Uderzo, you can turn to the page and show them here's, here's the guy you're looking for.

Veronica: Very, very cool.

Ron: It sounds like some good stuff there.

===================================

If I mis-transcribed anything sorry. I unlike Space Marines am only human.

 You are telling me your acolytes stay within mission parameters? The essence of a living milieu is the players having the impression of being able to wander off the beaten path at will, instead of being fed back into the moebius strip of my plot... I will be mightily impressed if Ross and the team can convey playing as a space marine as anything other than a linear event.

By the way- nice one. Stopped me wondering when DotDG was coming out for 5 whole minutes... 

Now that is comedy!

Jackal_Strain said:

Well, does that not mean they are really easy to play? If you get everything, ambitions, motivation and personality within the package should it not be easier to play? If someone says: Hey, I don't want to play anything complicated just your generic space marine and blow stuff into oblivion. Is that not a very easy character to play? You just have to scream a couple of lines attached to death, glory and the emperor when in combat and grunt other more controlled oneliners when in a social context. How hard can it be? Feelings are the hardest things to play in a belivable way, and not get embarresed in the process and if they are robots there are no feelings. Space Marines are the most easiest characters to play. It is like playing a Paladin or crusader and that don't seem to be any problems.

But space marines can be complex. Read some of the Ultra Marine novels. They have to deal with social interaction with non-marines to coordinate events, especially protecting their area of space they govern. Then you have the ever threatening web of chaos, as all Space Marines know the only thing that separates them from being a CSM is their faith in the emperor.

So I think doubt and fear are parts of being a SM, not the fear of that ork or nid over there, but the fear of failure, fear of corruption that drives them to do thier best beyond just their natural aptitude.

Besides in Role Playing Games you play the exception to the norm. The character that is different from his normal stock and brood. So PC Space Marines would be more open minded, perhaps on the edge of rebellion or being excommunicated. You would not be playing your standard battle brother, but someone who has more destiny and fate about him. A hero among heroes, or at least a featured character in a story instead of just another power armoured garbed space thug.

mainly I just wanted to weigh in and say the interview was awesome.

What I'm about to say may come off as elitist or arrogant, but to me that's not roleplaying. I have to feel emotionally attached to my character in order to roleplay him/her well. A spacemarine is a combat monster capable of killing almost anything, but not much more. I think they function very well for what GW intends them to do, and some of the novels actually show a differnet side to them, but I still can't help but feel that they're not very suitable as roleplaying characters.

Btw, I'm sorry for hijacking this thread. Lets get back to talking about the podcast, and if people want to discuss this further we can make another thread about spacemarines.

Wu Ming said:

We did say cool a heckuva lot. It's funny how one gets attached to words (believe it or not, I edited some "cool"s out). At one point, some regular listeners were calling me "Captain Awesome." If you don't watch Chuck, you won't likely get the joke. I'll just say it's funny.

It was great having Ross on the show. He's very cool/awesome!

[edited in agreement with the comments above about ending the thread hijacking.  Thanks for the podcast Ross! You can guess the original general sentiment by the fragment that remains:]

But, I have been told lacking testosterone, the appeal of space marines is probably lost on me... :-)

Ron Blessing said:

I really liked the Pod Cost btw, and just to be clear I didn't mean anything by the comment. I really didn't notice it until I was actually transcribing, its pretty natural while just listening. And people do tend to have their vocal foibles and picadillos, for a while with the group I game with I thought  I would scream if someone used the word 'effacacious' once more. It became like a vocabulary virus traveling from one gamer to another...

Again, though thanks Ross, Ron and Veronica, that pod cast was most righteous!