kaufschtick said:

I have to agree, the minis Zvezda make are great, detailed and easy to assemble. I have been using their vehicles for ToI since they first came out.

I tried Lock'NLoad a while back, but it just did not click with me.

I have now found "I Ain't Been Shot, Mum" by TooFatLardies, and for me, this is just IT. Very flexible rules, elegantly designed, sterling support. Despite the slightly whacky name, this is a realistic company-level game which incorporates command, control and communication features with battlefield friction in a way I have not seen before. The card-activiation mechanism reduces analysis paralysis to an absolute minimum, giving the game a nice flow. It is a table-top system, but can easily be adapted to hex boards. And I can use all my toys with it. This is a game where realism and fun are not mutually exclusive.

TooFatLardies have already published tons of scenario and organizational supplements.

Its sad to see ToI die like this, cuz in many ways it is a good simple miniature game.

But the combination of broken scenarios and no support…

Grand Stone said:

It ain't dead yet, I think. I will continue playing ToI whenever I get the chance.

But given the speed of publication and variety of products from Zvezda, and the already existing range of M44, I think it will be hard to sell any newcomers on ToI.

KlausFritsch said:

It may not be dead…but when fans like you guys are talking of other games, that's not good for it's vital signs.

A real shame that not only does FFG not directly support this game, it doesn't even support it indirectly…I would've had a couple of campaigns out by now if I could've and that alone would've kept the community happy.

What is wrong with game companies?!  Don't they know we want to play!  We want to help!  We want to be involved!

Sad but it seems FFG has caused a lot of use to go seeking other games. I had been working on some custom scenarios for ToI but I have just lost interest as I have come across other games that are very well supported and rules questions are cleared up offically in days not years.

Maybe someday my spark with ToI will return, but I don't think FFG will be the casue of that (unless they somehow release some flawless expansions and right their wrongs of the past.) I think the main reason will lay with the community.

Even though FFG my not see ToI as a money earner for them, seeing how they have treated the community has convinced me that I should not buy any of their products. Their are a number of games on here that look interesting but Im not going to buy anything with the FF badge on it, last time i did it was FotB when released, and they still havent had the decency to fix their mistakes that they charged us all for. Iv even had emails personal replyed to by the designer Rob Kouba telling me he was putting out the correction / Errata very soon, that was 12 months ago and again 6 months ago (making sure the current products are 100% before moving to the next one) So i will also be very careful about any products I see from other games companies that feature him as the designer aswell in the future. Anyway sorry to rant but FFG fires me up like that.

I will still keep hold of my ToI gear but really finding it hard to justify haveing 2 of all the expansions and base game.atm.

Brummbar said:

You're right, a couple campaigns would have keep the community happy. Th trouble for Tide of Iron was FFG's commitment to the fantasy game, Dust Tactics, or is it just Dust? I'm not sure, but the fantasy game on the alternate reality WWII deal. They decided to go that route, and ToI was left to wither on the vine, IMHO.

I seriously do not see myself ever playing ToI again, and it is a sad thing to say. It's funny, but I like ToI better than I do M44, but M44 gets the support from Days of Wonder…and for me, that's the difference. I still play M44, and will for quite some time. The game is like the energizer bunny, the support for it just keeps going, and going, and going…so I keep playing and playing, and playing.

Art of Tactic has moved in to fill the spot ToI used to occupy for me. Game boards for AoT are just as good in the practical sence as ToI, and Zvezda trumped FFG on the pieces, they raised the bar there. You are not going to beat Zvezda pieces.

The kill shots for AoT vs ToI are: A) the individual unit costs for the AoT pieces, and B) the support the company gives in terms of addition pieces and expansions. The unit costs makes it incredibly simple to DYO scenarios, and obviously, the rich choices offered with all the additional game pieces that are being added non stop, make AoT an easy choice over ToI.  

Also, when you read things from the game designer for AoT, I'm probably misspelling his name here, but I think it's Konstatin; you get the feeling that he created the game with a vision in mind, and you can see he is making good on his follow through. Other than the scenario book for ToI, I never really felt that there was any meaningful feedback from the game designer. Kinda like fire and forget weapons, FFG did ToI like; "design and forget".

ToI had it's moment in the sun, it had a lot of potential at one point, but FFG was just not the company to make it happen. 

Aussie_Digger said:

I agree on the not buying FFG games stuff anymore…ToI brought me back to boardgaming, but ever since I joined BGG my eyes have opened to the wealth of games out there from different companies…..and the level of support by them is fast and quick….

FFG games now seem to me to be more on the "heavier" and "longer" side, and while FFG components are great, so too are those by other game companies.

Well, I got TIde of Iron back when it first came out, because at that point, I had gotten frustrated with Axis and Allies Miniatures, fed up with the bait and switch marketing. Basically show the desirable units on the box, then you buy it, and all you get is a lot of undesirable and mixed up figures.

So Tide of Iron had this complete set of figures and vehicles, and nice graphics, and interesting description of game system, so I was sold.

Glad still, to this day, that I bought the game, and it is set up right now on my game table. The figures are painted, the vehicles I meticulously spent some time painted in correct looking colors and with the newer boards, it looks like a miniatures display.

Thing is, I rarely actually play the game with the TOI system. Instead, I have a synthesis of TOI and Memoir 44, called VolkSturm, which is more in depth than Memoir 44 but not nearly as complex and tedious as TOI. So it is quite easy to set up the board, and the pieces and teach someone how to play almost immediately. And the system I have does not require having to remove the figures from the squad base, which is a plus if you have painted them. All the markers for TOI are useful, as are the cards for Memoir 44, and also use the Airplane models from M44 AirPack. Likely, I will probably get that M44 Equipment Pack and integrate that in the game as well.

The one thing missing is a nice set of Russian infantry and vehicles which matches my sets of Brits,Americans, and Germans from TOI. So I may have to buy the FOTB just to get that set and some extra winter boards from TOI also.

Equipment Expansion Pack for Tide of Iron, Advanced Edition:

New Rulebook, clarifications, and options for additional units (listed below)

Rules suggestions:

Concealment expanded definition (requires spotting for ALL units in bldgs/woods not adjacent to enemy if not moved or fired in LOS )

Armored cars recon/command vehicle functions?

AA guns vs Aircraft attack

Transportation of field guns, AT guns by truck, halftracks

Limit   number of units in a Combined Fire attack to 3 units, and the attack expends 3 actions, one concentrated fire action for each unit..The CF attack will still be resolved by adding lead unit full attack strength to the other 2 participating units at half strength for a total single die roll vs one enemy unit.

Redesigned hedgerow map sections (hedges along hexsides instead of in middle of hex),hex tiles with edge stone walls

Full size destroyed building/rubble hex tile

plastic model fortification (wall along permeter and with room to place AT gun/squad

Full size entrenchment hex tile

Model packs expansions for each nation:

American

2 75mm field guns

2 M7 Priest SPA

4 larger scale 57 mm AT gun models

6 M5 Stuart light tanks

2 Pershing heavy tanks

4 M8 Greyhound Armored cars

2 40 mm AA halftracks

2 Jeeps

British

2 25 pdr field guns

2 Bofurs 40mm AA gun

2 Sexton SPA

4 M4 Sherman Firefly tanks

4 larger scale 6pd AT gun models

2 17pdr AT guns

6 Cromwell tanks

2 Churchill tanks

4 Daimler Armored cars

German

2 75mm  field guns

2 GW38 SPA

4 larger scale 50mm AT guns

2 Maultier Nebelwerfer Halftracks

2 PZ-IV Whirblewind quad 20 AA tank

4 Puma armored cars

4 Pz-38 model early war tank

8 Pz-III tank (needed for FOTB early war scenarios)

2 Marder-II TDs

2 Jagpanthers (88mm)

Russian

4 larger scale 76.2 AT guns 

4 SU-76 SPGs

6 T-26 early war tank

4 Bt-7 early war tank

4 T-34/85 tank

2 SU-152 SPG

4 BT-20 Armored cars

2 Katusha rocket trucks

8 T34/43 plastic turrets to replace those 1/2ass turrets on the FOTB models

Second that rule clearifications, updates and scenarios is a major +1 for me. Or, even support would be nice. Ie. fan made scenario booklet is completly doable, but that needs some support…

Volkscamper, would you be willing to share your combined rules? Sounds interesting. I do not get to play TOI that often and a quicker set up time will encourage me to play solo more often

As far as expansions go. I woulsd like to see the other half of Fury And The Bear published, this will bring it in line with the supposed original expansion which was obviously bigger. After that a Pacific expasnsion will be great. The rules need to be re written to claify all the mistakes and things that are not very clear.

Player aid cards need to be redesigned so each nation has all their info on one card. A terrain and special effects player aid card would be handy.

 Pacific, Sea Battle! 

Let's face it, TOI is not a moneymaker like Dust Tactics, Descent or the future Star Wars Miniature Game.
Well you know all the things that sell well.

I doubt we will ever see any expansion again for TOI.
And to be honest, i don't really care anymore since there is no support at all for TOI since ages.
FFG has given up on it long time ago.

Would be really simple to bump the system up, VolksCamper posted the best examples for expansions that would bump up TOI big times.

VolksCamper said:

I was actually shocked a little that they didn't run hedges along hexsides. When the Normandy expansion came out, that was one of my biggest complaints. Also by using hexsides, they can introduce fences and walls. But currently, they way they do things is that each "hex" is a terrain type.

As for limiting the number of units that can perform a Combined Fire, I actually like this. Limit number of units in a Combined Fire attack to 2 units for green or untrained troops, 3 units normal or regular troops, and 4 for veteran or elite troops. Though, I would still make a Combined Fire attack one action regardless of the number of units that participate. That way it doesn't mess up the game mechanics. Also if you only have two actions per turn, how would you fire three units in a Combined Fire?

RayGuns said:

Well, IMO, the reason to have each unit in a CF have to be given a fire action, is because each unit is  essentially doing the same thing they would be doing if firing separately at the enemy unit targeted. CF is just a way of speeding up the process of rolling dice by making it a single attack die roll.

But even limiting CF still does not prevent the inevitable overkill problem that is a result of having a turn concluded only when ALL the units of each player have been fatigued or in Opfire.. This causes some odd tactics,like player with extra units, can move trucks first, expending several actions, forcing the opposing player to have to waste some actions, or place units in OP fire mode. Its called the "cannonfodder" tactic, and it is similar in respects to the PanzerBlitz oddity of trucks being allowed to spot and to block enemy combat units.

Memoir 44 game avoided this by using the card system for ordering units each turn, and only a very few cards allow for the player to move nearly all his units in a single turn. So in games with one side having 2 to 1 superior numbers or more, there is a still a reasonable chance for the lesser force player,because the card system introduces a kind an ebb and flow. 

I have been using Memoir 44 cards now, and with a few optional rules for defining units and movement/combat values, I have converted my Tide of Iron into a kind of game similar to M44 Breakthrough expansion. It is easier, has more types of units, and trucks and halftracks are "attached" which converts a unit into a motorized or mechanized unit.