Hi Folks,

Can an investigator who is sucked through a gate (in the Mythos Phase) and delayed in the first section of Another World still cast Find Gate on his subsequent movement phase (thus avoiding any Other Word encounters)?

Cheers

Chris

As I understand it, you still get a Movement Phase (it's when you stop being Delayed). So yes. Find Gate doesn't require that you be able to do anything special during your Movement phase, it just requires that it be the movement phase when you exhaust it.

-Frank

I think I find myself in the minority here.  I say you do not get to use the Spell. 

Most people hang their hats on the "No Movement Points" argument and say as long as you aren't using Movement points (as is the case with this Spell) and I can buy that argument to a certain degree.  However, the rule as written says:

During the game, certain effects can cause an investigator to become delayed. When this occurs, place the investigator marker on its side, indicating the delay. Delayed investigators receive no movement points and do not move during the Movement Phase. Instead, during the investigator’s Movement Phase, the player stands the investigator marker back up to show that the investigator is no longer delayed. On the following turn, the investigator will be able to move once again as normal.

 So if you can't cast Find Gate while delayed you should not be able to cast if after using the White Ship.

If you can cast Find Gate while delayed you should be able to cast it after using the White Ship.

But Coltsfan, you quoted the rule. You stand up instead of receiving movement points or moving. You specifically have a movement phase while delayed. This is extremely open and shut. Receiving movement points to spend on getting about town or reading books is something you don't do. Moving to the second outworld area is something you don't do. But getting a movement phase is something that you do, so you can activate cards that are activated at that time. Then you're golden.

The White Ship is more complicated of a question because it is written vaguely. It says "instead of movement" rather than having a regular activation timeframe. That could mean:

• Instead of physically moving your marker around - in which case you can still read books before you transport yourself to the Dreamlands and then you can cast Find Gate afterwards.
• Instead of getting movement points - in which case you can't read books but can use Find Gate.
• Instead of getting a Movement Phase - in which case you can't read books or use Find Gate.

Since there's no text to indicate which of those three is being discussed, people are welcome to differing opinions. But the delayed condition is different because it explicitly takes your movement points and not your phase. So books are out and Find Gate is in.

-Frank

It seems a bit strange that someone could have a gate open on them in Mythos, and then immediately cast Find Gate to get back out again without having any OW encounters at all. Admittedly, Mark Harrigan could do this anyway, but that's their special power.

cim said:

Ha! I'll do you one better. Mentioned this before, but still worth mentioning for the weirdness of it:

Naacaal Key + Find Gate + Mark Harrigan (or Erich Weiss ally) = Open a gate of your choice during the movement phase at your location, enter, cast Find Gate and be ready to close/seal once the Arkham Encounter phase comes up  !

I allow FG during the movement phase that you stand up from delayed (or similar spells, Vision Quest if you were delayed in Arkham). If you don't allow FG, then I don't see why you should be allowed any spells, you're still in the movement phase, even if combat takes place at the end of the phase.

Frank said:

I don't agree with this.  Your movement phase allows you to stand up, period.  There are 7 Movement Spells in the game.  I think all of them should be forbidden if you are delayed.  You are not allowed to move, but you can cast spells to allow you to move?  I don't buy it.

 I'm with the "does work" camp, going by the strictest interpretation of the rules, though I think for flavour reasons it would be better to rule the other way.

Nowhere in the description of the effect of being delayed is it stated that an investigator skips their movement phase, only that they get no movement points. Thus, any spell that can be cast in the movement phase can be cast even if delayed, even if it has the effect of moving the investigator. But an erratum/calrification might be a good idea.

Frank said:

Seems clear to me what you do using the White Ship replaces anything you could normally do during movement i.e. "instead of your normal movement" the Wagon is the same way.

So no tomes, spells cast during movement, etc

ColtsFan76 said:

You can still fight a monster while delayed. So does that mean you can't use anything against it because your delayed and your just a easy target for the monster?

Being delayed doesn't skip your movement you just can't move and receive 0 movement points.

If it was up to you delayed investigators could not trade/ fight monsters because all the could do is stand up!

MrsGamura said:

That's not what I said if you would like to take the time to read the thread before putting words in my mouth.

 The point is, fighting monsters and trading is part of the movement phase. So if the argument is that the white ship replaces the whole movement phase, then investigators couldn't fight or trade. Therefore it clearly doesn't do that.

My two cents...

All rules seem to force characters to have at least one encounter while in the other worlds before returining to Arkham and obtaining the explorer marker. In an official FAQ, it's clearly written that an investigar falling into a gate as a consequence of an Arkham encounter is delayed for this reason: in case he/she is not delayed, investigators will spend one round less to complete the exploration of an external world. If an investigator is able to cast Find Gate and enters normally in an Other World, he should enter it in its movement phase (fighting eventually monsters protecting the gate) (and here the movement phase finishes), draw an encounter card in the Other World and in the following round, during the new movement phase, he can cast FG to return beck to Arkham (or move to the Other World second area in case he fails the spell casting roll). If the investigator falls through a gate in the encounter phase in Arkham, on the following round he has no movement in the Other World because (FAQ) otherwise he could travel through the Other World quicker than an investigator entering there normally. Thus no way to move and encounter. And in case a monster is drawn as result of the encounter, he has to fight it (but it's in the encounter phase, because it's a consequence of the card drawn), so I don't see how you can fight a monster in the movement phase while delayed in the Other world. After this, you are free, and so the following round you can move or cast FG or whatelse

I'm with Coltsfan76 about this one. I think it's clearly against the spirit of the rules to be able to enter and leave the other worlds without having a single encounter. If there are rules that may be interpreted differently, they should be clarified/errataed.

jhaelen said:

And it goes beyond that.  I think it was mentioned but not fully explained that it is possible for a gate to open on some one in Turn 1 Phase 5 (Mythos).  They get delayed and sent to the OW.  Turn 2 Phase 2, they can stand up, thus undelaying themselves and then cast Find Gate.  They return to Arkham.  Turn 2, Phase 3, they can now close the gate.  In less than 1 turn, you can close a gate?  Based on an event that was meant to punish you?  That is definitely breaking the spirit of the game.  All other scenarios of the game have you spend at least 1 encounter in the OW before heading back, even with Find Gate.

Again, everyone focuses on the loss of Movement Points.  The rules clearly say you cannot Move either.  The rules also say instead of moving you stand up.   There are 7 movement spells in the entire game.  They almost all have to do with moving a character, moving a monster, or gaining movement points.  All of these should be tossed out when you are delayed.  You are being punished when you are delayed - you shouldn't be able to advance the game in your favor by casting these spells.

Combat is a distinct "subphase" - for lack of a better term - that can occur in Phase 2, 3, or 4.  Combat comes about when you move -or- at the end of the Movement phase.  In other words, when you no longer take any movement, combat is triggered.  Which is the case with being delayed - you are done moving.  For the most part, having to do battle - especially  if it is not by choice - should be considered a continuation of the punishment you receive as part of being delayed.

I am not advocating that the movement phase is skipped.  Clearly that is not the case.  Therefore, combat should still continue.  All I am saying is what the rules say on page 8.

1. You do not get movement points (so Tomes are out), 
2. You cannot move (so Spells that occur during Movement are out),
3. All you can do during movement is stand up.

Once the "moving" portion of the Movement Phase is done, then combat continues if applicable.