I'm note sure how everyone else plays this game but my group plays it very aggressively, player on player.  If a player is getting ahead everyone else gangs up on them.  I find it hard to believe that a 5 fate dwarf running back and forth between the graveyard and the enchantress can survive being on the wrong end of every negative spell and every character who is trying to attack him using fate to land on his space.  I'm looking forward to fate as it will allow for PvP action far more often, the best part of the game.  How much more powerful will the assassin and thief be when they can roll twice to land on another character.  I'm pumped to play with fate, I think characters are going to be dieing early far more often, or burning their fate just to stay alive and not to get more fate. 

If you think the dwarf is too powerful, imagine this:  The Dwarf who got lucky and is evil running between the graveyard and the enchantress and the Assassin hunting him down.  I'm pretty sure the Dwarf will lose.

Roy said:

After looking through the new set, this definitely seems to be the case. More socialism in gaming. This trend began with MMORPG's when many non-traditional gamers began playing fantasy adventure games, has reached even into old stand bys like D & D, and is going to be implemented into all of our old classic games that still had some level of difficulty and challenge. "Oh no! People won't want to play a game if anything bad can actually happen to them!".

Ok, I know I'm not being very open minded but, it is frustrating to see every game being watered down. I actually like a bit of a challenge.

igfa_277 said:

So you essentially play it like a FPS (First Person Shooter) in Arena or Death Match mode rather than a board game as intended. Of course, since the whole Alignment issue has been whimpy since the 1st edition, there are no consequences for repeatedly assaulting a character of the same alignment (especially those of GOOD). Not many of us would find that interesting, even when ultimately seeking an end-game that again disregards the weak Alignment stat.

Fate won't change this kind of play in any notable manner. Those who play this way might note a slightly higher rotation of characters on the board. Fewer characters would get anywhere in development, which in turn increases the length of the game... and gets boring for most other (the majority) of board game players.  All guesswork of course, but based on your desciption and assumptions, this is what would result.

Caliban said:

x2

JCHendee said:

Actually its not uncommon at all for people to gang up on the leader in a board game, in fact in Talisman it's pretty much encouraged.  Boardgames can be very cutthroat in nature, and one of the best ways of winning is tearing down the guy currently in the lead. 

I haven't read through the whole Topic, but I see character advancement tied directly to game speed. The one complaint I've ever had with Talisman, is there were too many turns spent with little going on. If Fate speeds it up, I'll take it.

I also like the fact that it is another way to help balance characters.

Don't forget, we were promised the dark side of the tokens would be fleshed out in future expansions. So, the shield may become the sword and give new, fun ways to ruin our friend's evening.

Overall, it looks pretty easy to house rule Fate right out.

vogless said:

Character advancement does speed the game up, but not just add +x strength and Craft, its easier and doesn't negatyively impact the game.

vogless said:

At this stage... but I am assuming you won't be able easily do it in Raper.  It would be to know of good ways to nerf it without impacting Raper, or whether we can just take out the whole grim reaper thing out of Raper and play with the 90 new cards to elimiate the impacts of Fate in that expansion.

I'll get the upgrade edition next week and I have bought a copy for a mates child  - last time he got the BI version he and the all kids down the street were playing it for weeks.  It might be easier for them to play.

RiCHiE said:

Please stop calling it that! Its Reaper, Raper is something quite different! ;o)

I think it is fair to say that the majority of the negative feeling towards Fate is coming from Talisman players of old who have yet to actually play a few games with the new "mechanic" in place.

I remember Ell and I were quite resistant to the change as we felt it would spoil the chances of Toading someone, though I think there are enough chances for someone to use up their Fate tokens before casting Random on them!

I would suggest that people simply give it a chance, as it will become much more as expansions are released. You might even come to like it!

If you don't like the frequency of being able to use Fate, then rather than discounting it completely, why not try ruling that it can only be used once per turn, and possibly not at all if it is not actually your turn?

The problem with Talisman is that EVERYONE has an opinion on what should have been done to make it better, myself included, but you have to just take the game as it is and run with it. You will find it more enjoyable, and less confusing for newcomers to your gaming group if you are all singing from the same sheet.

However, Talisman has always been a game where different interpretations of the rules have led to many, many house rules and that is another thing I love about it. People take the game, and make it their own.

Talisman is what it is. It has no agenda to speak of. It is simply a jaunt through a fantasy realm, meeting creatures of legend and a chance to have a good time with like minded people. You simply have to allow yourself to enjoy it and don't take it too seriously!

talismanisland has some great points!

I've been playing the game all weekend (1 big run that hasn't ended yet).  I actually got my wife to play with me.  She loves games, but typically couldn't be bothered with anything like Talisman.  On the bright side she really enjoys the game!  On the not-so-bright side she cannot stand fate.  In fact I assumed she'd really like the fate feature since she wasn't familiar with the game and would want a little bit of help the first play through or so.  NOPE!  She'd rather get the smack-down early on from a dragon or demon.  So for now, house rules are allowing you to use your fate, but not replenish it.  We'll assess the situation once the expansion comes out with the added fate components, but as of now it isn't fully implemented.  The kicker for her was that I got out of being toaded by the witch and on my re-roll I was granted all my fate back.  She thought that was quite cheap...and although I was happy I wasn't a toad I completely share her sentiment.

Very true it will have to be house ruled... but I hope it will not be so prominant in future expansions that it will be a lot of work.

Leaning towards a middle ground - fate only being used on combat, moves, and rolling against strength or craft.  (ie, usable with the Portal of Power, but not the Temple)

EDIT: 'compromise' changed to 'middle ground' for clarity of intent

HallertauRogue said:

Not sure why someone would rather get smacked around early by dragons and demons but whatever floats your boat!

This may be a little presumptuous but throwing away an entire game mechanic based on one encounter during the game sounds like you're overreacting just a wee bit. What are the chances that you'll even draw the witch card during the game, and then roll a one, and then happen to have a fate available to reroll, then just by pure dumb luck you happen to roll the best outcome of the card? That's like one in a thousand, or even one in a million?

So you will never use fate again because there is a one in thousand chance of rerolling a toad at the witch? Does sound reasonable to anyone?

HallertauRogue said:

I was going to reply to talismanisland's post but HallertauRogue's comment brings the issue into even greater focus.

Let me you a true story and don't worry, I will try to make it as short as possible.

During a game of Talisman, one of the players was struggling to catch up. Let's call him Monk because that was the character he was playing. Everyone else had a good mix of cards and experience points. Due to bad rolls, bad card draws, and overall bad luck the Monk was rapidly falling behind. He started to turn it around by getting some powerful items then WHAM! Raiders swooped in and stole away his only hope of winning. The player was so distraught that he quit the game and went home. Now he hates the game and calls before coming over just to ask "are you going to play Talisman." If the answer is yes then he waits until we bring out Arkham Horror or any other game before he will join us.

My point is that some people refuse to play a game, or in HallertauRogue's case a certain game feature, just because they have ONE bad experience. Sure bad things happen to you in Talisman, but you just laugh it off and have fun. What is even more baffling to me is why HallertauRogue had the same hateful reaction as my friend when his experience actually HELPED his character!

I do not think that it is fair to judge a game based off of a bad experience from one card, or one reroll, or even one encounter.

I'm not sure how many of you are actually basing your opinions on in game experiences, but I've played several games of the new FFG Talisman, and my group really enjoys the Fate aspect.

First of all, Fate allows the game designers another level to help ensure the balance between characters. I think its important that players all feel they have relatively the same chance of winning as anyone else, and by introducing Fate designers were given another tool to help balance the characters out. What other option is there, besides changing the characters into bland, generic copies of each other?

Secondly, Fate has created a tangible difference between Good and Evil. A couple of players mentioned this in the few games that we played. Good characters can regain health a lot easier, while Evil players are able to replenish Fate points. Its a minor difference, but it can have a major impact on how the game is played.

I think Fate also added a bit of a tactics and reduced the luck factor, just a bit. Its not a huge impact, but players now have a new level of decision making in the game. Do I lose this fight against the dragon, or do I reroll hoping for a 6? Stuff like that makes the game a little more interactive. In my experience, Fate was primarily used in player vs player conflicts. Having that edge against another player curtailed people from spending fate on every bad roll.

Fate also adds another mechanic that game designers can tap into later on in the game, helping keep replayability alive. There's already mention of negative or dark sided fate. What about spells that drain fate, or monsters that do Fate damage instead of life damage? Items/spells/character abilities powered by Fate points? I know the addition of these mechanics would make it harder for players to remove the Fate system from their game, but I think the possiblities for expansion could help balance out people's dislike for Fate.