TheProfessor said:

I can easily argue in both directions on this one. So I'll let Damon handle this one as both ways can make sense.

However, I AM bothered by his ruling or rather his explanation of the Statue vs printed skill of insane chararacters ruling.

From the FAQ under insanity:

An insane character’s skill, text box, cost,
and icons cannot be modified. Although
it still counts as a character under your
control, it is always treated as having 0
skill, 0 cost, no icons, no subtypes, no
text box, and no faction, regardless of
any effects in play.

The characters still have a 'printed' skill!!! The game treats them as 0. Really not much different than setting a skill to 0. But its printed value remains printed. So if I trigger things in the ground with the statue in play and reveal a Magnus and a Diseased Sewer Rat the rat should enter play (insane) and immediately be destoryed while Magnus would enter play (insane) and remain in play.

jhaelen said:

*cracks knuckles*

If a character has two factions, we'll call him character D for dual factioned.

I cannot commit characters they control from different factions to the same story. 
- If I commit D alone, then there is nothing different from him. So D commits
- If I commit D with a neutral character (N), neutrals do no count as a faction so nothing is different than him. So D and N commit.
- If I commit D with a single faction character that shares a single faction (S), S has a different faction than D even though it shares one as well. So S cannot commit with D.
- If I commit D with another D (D2), D2 does not have a faction that is different than D's. So D and D2 commit.

Under communal shower characters don't have to share a faction, they just can't be different. As soon as something is different, it can't commit. Otherwise, it works.

At least, thats how I think. However, Damon could easily come out and say that "not different = share" which would bunk my explanation. Till then... I would rule the above.

Just got an answer from Damon.

My original question I sent:

"1. If Strange Delusions causes a card to gain a faction affiliation, is that in addition to its printed faction affiliation? If so, then we need to know how to answer questions about whether a card belongs to, doesn't belong to, or is the same/different faction as another card. There are many cards that this could affect. Is a multi-faction card from a different faction than a card that shares only one of its factions for instance? Two multi-faction cards that share one faction? Maybe that faction is Neutral?

2. How are Neutral cards treated? The rule s say that a Neutral card does not belong to any faction. But we're not sure how this fits with some cards. Is a Neutral card "a different faction" from another card? (example: Communal Shower or Professor Lake) Does it matter if the other card is also Neutral? What if the Neutral card has another granted faction from Strange Delusions?

3. Is a Neutral card from the same or different faction than another Neutral card?

What we're looking for is a consistent way to answer all faction related questions about Neutral cards, and also all faction related questions about multi-faction cards (one of which might be Neutral) - provided that you rule that multi-faction cards exist from Strange Delusions.?"

And then the reply:

"Neutrals, as the rule you quoted says, do not belong to any faction. That solves all the questions you asked regarding neutral cards. You cannot compare something that does not exist to something else. Neutral cards have no faction so they have nothing to compare, in the case of Communal Shower that means you can commit a Cthulhu character and a Neutral character both to the same story, no problem. A Neutral card does not belong to the same faction as another Neutral card, because they belong to no faction at all.

Strange Delusions will give a character an affiliation of your choice but it does not say anything about removing existing affiliations, just adding one. So a card that was Cthulhu, could be Cthulhu Hastur. It would match both factions and treated at all times as if it were both factions until Strange Delusions effect ended with the phase it was triggered. If a card said Cthulhu cards cannot commit to a story, that card could not commit. If a card said non-Hastur cards do not count their skill, it would count its skill because it is a Hastur card. Communal Shower would prevent it from committing to any story at all since it is a character from different factions."

Magnus, this mainly differs from your post in that Damon is saying that a 2-faction character is (in effect) a different faction FROM HIMSELF.

dboeren said:

I'd also like to note that there _is_ a card that will remove a character's faction(s):

Old Sea Dog:

Action: Exhaust Old Sea Dog to choose a character. Until the end of the phase, that character loses all faction affiliations and becomes neutral.

Yes, that's how I'm reading it - two Neutral cards do not belong to the same faction as each other, nor do they belong to different factions from each other.

dboeren said:

Professor Lake:

Forced Response: After a player plays a card, until the end of the phase that player can only play cards that belong to a different faction than that card.

So, if the first card I play in a phase is a Neutral card, I'm hosed: I cannot play any card after it, since no card can compare its faction with it!

If the first card I play belongs to a faction, I cannot play another card of that faction and I cannot play a Neutral card (in the same phase).

Playing a card with multiple factions is (currently) not possible, so it's not relevant here.

Uneasy Translator:

Action: Exhaust Uneasy Translator to choose a character. That character gains +2 skill for each character in play from a different faction from it.

So, if I choose a Neutral character it doesn't gain a skill bonus, no matter what other cards are in play.

If I choose a character that belongs to a single faction, it will gain +2 skill for every character with a different faction, which includes characters with multiple factions sharing the faction of the targeted character. The targeted character does not gain +2 skill for Neutral characters or characters belonging to the same faction.

If I choose a character belonging to multiple factions, it will gain +2 skill for every character belonging to a single faction. It will also gain +2 skill for characters belonging to multiple factions if they share only a single faction with it. The targeted character does not gain +2 skill for Neutral characters or multi-faction characters that have both factions in common with it.

Whew! Did I get those right? If so, both cards just revealed a couple of interesting side-effects

jhaelen said:

Professor Lake would let you play another card after a Neutral. Lake asks What faction is card X? The next card cannot match that faction. If it returns a null value, the next card just needs to be anything that is not null.

Uneasy Translator - Neutral characters would not give a boost, I agree there, but if the targeted card had both Cthulhu and Hastu it would only give a bonus for every character that was neither Cthulhu or Hastur. The question would be, What faction does the target character belong to. Each character that does not have that faction gives it +2. So it compares every character in play and asks the question is that cards faction different.

Damon says that the card is both factions simultaneously, so anything with Cthulhu matches one of its faction and is therefor not different. Same would apply to Hastur.

"Uneasy Translator:

If I choose a character belonging to multiple factions, it will gain +2 skill for every character belonging to a single faction. It will also gain +2 skill for characters belonging to multiple factions if they share only a single faction with it. The targeted character does not gain +2 skill for Neutral characters or multi-faction characters that have both factions in common with it."

The way I'm reading Damon's reply, you'd get the skill bonus for every non-neutral character, including itself, regardless of faction.  From his ruling on Communal Shower a multi-faction card is always a "different faction" from anything that has a faction (even itself).

 That is not how I read it, as a matter of fact I read it exactly the opposite. The Card is both simultaneously A & B. Every character that is A is not different than it because it is A. Every character that is B is not different than it because it is B. Only C-Z are different.

Look at the very last sentence of Damon's email, that's what I'm basing this on:

"Neutrals, as the rule you quoted says, do not belong to any faction. That solves all the questions you asked regarding neutral cards. You cannot compare something that does not exist to something else. Neutral cards have no faction so they have nothing to compare, in the case of Communal Shower that means you can commit a Cthulhu character and a Neutral character both to the same story, no problem. A Neutral card does not belong to the same faction as another Neutral card, because they belong to no faction at all.

Strange Delusions will give a character an affiliation of your choice but it does not say anything about removing existing affiliations, just adding one. So a card that was Cthulhu, could be Cthulhu Hastur. It would match both factions and treated at all times as if it were both factions until Strange Delusions effect ended with the phase it was triggered. If a card said Cthulhu cards cannot commit to a story, that card could not commit. If a card said non-Hastur cards do not count their skill, it would count its skill because it is a Hastur card. Communal Shower would prevent it from committing to any story at all since it is a character from different factions."

The character counts as a different faction from himself according to this.  Logically, I believe that means he is also a different faction from other characters that share his same faction(s).  If you want to put it into more precise terms, I would have to say based on Damon's reply that two characters are "the same faction" if and only if every faction of character A matches every faction of character B.

 The two factions are different from each other, that means the character has two differing factions. That is why it is affected by Communal Shower. Uneasy Translator is looking at the faction of the chosen character and buffing it for each character with a faction that does not match. If it has 2 factions any character that matches either one of those immediately disqualifies it from being from a different faction.

If I hold dual citizenship of Germany and Britain I am a citizen of each nation. I am subject to both their laws, and if you were from Britain we would be countrymen. A german citizen and I  would be countrymen. Just because you are not from both Britain and Germany doesn't mean we aren't countrymen.

Penfold said:

My reasoning is based on the following statement from Damon:

You cannot compare something that does not exist to something else.

So, if I play a Neutral card first, I end up with a situation that I cannot compare any card I might like to play with the first card I played. This effectively prevents me from playing any further cards because it is impossible to test if it is a card I am allowed to play!

Imho, this is similar to the ruling that Doppelganger cannot target an insane character because it is impossible to determine the target's printed cost.

You can't compare it because there is nothing to compare. There is nothing to compare if you have not played a card either, you wouldn't say if you have not played a card you could not play a card, would you? As long as the neutral is the first card you played it won't be an issue.

Penfold said:

If no card has been played, the trigger condition is not satisfied. If a Neutral card is played, the trigger condition _is_ satisfied.

What this discussion has definitely proven to me is this:

Stating that Neutral cards do not have a faction instead of saying they're of the Neutral faction creates a whole load of completely unnecessary complications and weird corner cases. What's the advantage of saying they don't have a faction?!

Adding a rule instead that cards with the Neutral faction don't require a faction match to play would have been a hundred times better.

 Well, we have to accept that the rule book makes it clear that Neutral cards don't belong to a faction.  And it may be very intentional to put some restrictions on Neutrals...

This could only change with a change to the rule book, not a FAQ answer.