LethalDose said:

I can neither confirm nor deny this.  I don't know them.  :)

I don't know them either, but I'm not sure I buy the argument that releasing PDFs qualifies as "stupid."

One other element pertaining to this question is that this very same question was asked of FFG during their GenCon2012 seminar.

And the answer was "our licensing contract with LucasFilm does not permit the sale of PDFs."  This was also well before the announcment that LucasFilm was being sold to Disney, though only an utter fool would think that FFG was totally unaware of the sale being on the table if not already in process at the time they made arrangements for the Star Wars gaming license.

At this point, FFG's best bet to be able to produce PDFs for sale of their Star Wars line would be when their license comes up for renewal.  From paying attention to when WotC's own license came up for renewal, each time they tried to get electronic media (namely, PDFS) of their products included in the license, but each time the way LucasFilm was organized (book rights being one brance, electronic media being another) prevented such a thing.  Maybe FFG will have better luck.  But until that point, which is at least a few years away, I doubt FFG will be selling PDF versions of their Star Wars books, as whatever proceeds could be generated would pale in comparison to the legal fees and repercussions of breaking the terms of their license agreement.

LethalDose said:

Okay, my bad.  I looked through FFG's catalog and just about every RPG product listed (some holes in the WFRPG line) has a PDF option.  Obviously, FFG has no problem releasing game products as PDFs.  So there's probably something specific to the Star Wars line.  DM and others are probably right, this is probably a licensing issue.  But thats far from the only reason that they may not be releasing electronic version.

As for:

WildKnight said:

Well, that's convenient, because I'm not trying to sell it.  I said, "FFG is not stupid", but you read "Releasing PDFs qualifies as stupid".  I really can't argue with the point because I have no idea how you got there.

The entire point of that post was that FFG has rational reasons for doing what they do.  I'm not arguing PDFs are stupid, and if I were, I would say something like "PDFs are stupid".  However, I never said that or anything like it.  I'm saying FFG has a good reason for not releasing them, even if we don't know what it is.  Whatever it is, it doesn't look like there will be a legal electronic copy at launch, and I can't any reason to expect this to change.

-WJL

Yes, I agree with Donovan - they are unlikely to negotiate for PDF sales until renegotiation time. Which should be in about 3 more years, if Mongoose's Matt Sprague was correct in his leak of FFG's license. 

I do hope they can pull if off then. 

LethalDose said:

…  riiiiiiight.

Donovan Morningfire said:

All this seems/sounds totally valid, but is still ridiculous at the same time. Take the Star Wars novels for example, they are available in both print and digital, and some are exclusively digital. Look at the newest novel Scoundrels, the main book is available print and digital, but there was also a short story published only in Star Wars Insider in December, and another digital only novella that feeds directly in Scoundrels, called Winner Lose All. In this day and edge Lucas is fully aware of the digital life style, and one would think that this would be a no brainer when a new licensing contract was created. Maybe a PDF wouldn't be the best route due to easy of piracy, maybe the epub style route would be better suited like available on iBooks, nook, and Kindle marketplaces.

I can also see a stance of supporting brick and mortar, but finding a brick and mortar game shop is not an easy task in this day and age. My nearest game shop is 30 miles away, and not easy to get to, as it is mostly backroads. There was one that was much easier to get to, but that shop up and closed. Also my local comic shops no longer stock RPG stuff, in fact its all on clearance at 50% off. So some might say well you can buy it direct from FFG, but that then defeats the support for brick and mortar.

Maybe the answer is to do a print release first for brick and mortar, and then release digital. I really don't know what their plan may be, but I would definitely buy a print copy just because having a hard copy is still appealing to me, and I would also purchase a digital copy to keep on my iPad, that way I can take it anywhere anytime, and not worry about it getting damaged. I really hope they can come to a plan, because I want more! 

I'm amazed at how many people would rather believe that FFG is lying rather than accept what they say about their agreement.

mouthymerc said:

Precisely.  While FFG is one of the bigger RPG companies, a lot of that is tied up in other product lines, including several with their own licensing fees, such as Game of Thrones/SoI&F and Warhammer.  For major book publilshing companies, they've probably got enough fiscal resources to be able to get e-media included in their licensing deals by way of being able to afford the costs of doing so.

Because let's be honest with ourselves, RPGs are still a niche market, and Star Wars RPGs even more so, and the majority of RPG companies operate on a slim profit margin (how slim depends on the company; WotC's bottom line is probaby a lot healthier than smaller companies like Evil Hat or WildFire, which is prbably better than the really small PDF-only companies that are really just one or two guys cranking out material at home).  Novels on the other hand have a far broader audience, so Del Ray can expect a higher return on investment while cranking out multiple books in rapid succession, as they don't really have to tie things together the way that an RPG product line has to or worry about design layout.

And I share mouthymerc's astonishment that some folks simply refuse to believe that FFG is being honest and thus have some sinister reason for denying them the opportunity for PDF sales.  Heck, I'm sure Jay Little and Sam Stewart would be doing cartwheels of joy if they could suddenly get the okay to sell PDF versions of their Star Wars products.  But as the state of their license most likely stands at the current time, they can't.  And following most business practices, the only real chance that FFG will have to change that is when the license comes up for renewal, at whatever future date that is.

Doc, the Weasel said:

I just re-read this thread.  Who claimed they were lying?  Or otherwise indicated that FFG was being intentionally dishonest.

-WJL

LethalDose said:

I don't think anyone is saying that they (FFG) are lying, but I think some don't buy the licensing issue. They think they know better and that there is some conspiracy. It may also have to do with the "Brick & Morter" sales comments. While I think FFG fully supports game stores, if they could sell pdfs I'm sure they would, even if after the release of the dead tree version. Much like WotC, who didn't purchase digital rights with all their resources, I think FFG have to choose what they can afford which amounts to the book rights and go with that. And really they are going to make much more off that. Digital rights may be too expensive for the return they would give.

mouthymerc said:

No, they are, its almost literally what Doc said:

Doc, the Weasel said:

(emphasis mine)  

As for 

mouthymerc said:

That's fine.  I proposed it was something other than the licensing issue, and realized I was probably wrong after looking at all their products.  I think its abundantly clear FFG doesn't have a problem with releasing PDFs, which means they don't see a conflict between FLGS and pdfs, or have piracy concerns.  I stated as much: 

LethalDose said:

and did so a day before Doc's comments above and DM's statement:

Donovan Morningfire said:

(again emphasis mine) So, again, where has anyone said anything like this?  Mostly I'm hoping its not aimed at me or someone else who is having words put in their mouths.

-WJL

Wasn't pointing a finger at you LD. Some people see the Brick & Morter comments and react badly. Others had a bad reaction to WotC's reaction to pdfs and their "pirating" and are still butt-hurt and figure anyone else not putting out pdfs are using the same excuse and want to call them on it. At the end of the day I think this is nothing more than a licensing issue. The costs of securing both print and digital rights may be more expensive than they are worth. As I said, if even WotC didn't secure both with their deeper pockets I can understanf FFG not wanting to.