Thanks Vorpal Sword for finding that for me.

The guides are ignored when determining range (rules booklet pg 10), so I would say that you would ignore them for purposes of detonating bombs as well.

As regards Scenario B, the reason the cofusion occured for us is due to trhe rules for obstacles, which we had assumed mines where.

Pg20 moving through obstacles " When a ship executes a maneuver in which either the maneuver template or the ship's base physically overlaps an obstacle token, follow these steps: 1. Execute the maneuver as normal, but skip the 'perform action' step. "

I realise now that it was probably just poor wording in the rule book and they must have ment to add ' overlap at the end of movement ' but I still find it confusing. We had been tracing the movement obviously to see if we conected not just placing the ship.

again i see our error and thx for correction.

The wording is a bit confusing there, because "overlap" is actually defined in another spot. But even for obstacles, the only time you check to see whether the base is overlapping something is at the end of movement. 

I'd like to jump in here to get clarification on a scenario of my own that I see being touched on but not explicitly called out.  If I move my firespray in such a way that my proxy mine is dropped directly on top of an enemy, when does it go off?  We have been playing that it goes off immediatly.  Thanks.

Paladin Jeff said:

It wouldn't go off immediately.

When it would go off would depend on the exact placement.  It triggers when a ship's maneuver template crosses it, or the ship itself lands on it.  So just like a fighter that landed on an asteroid, if it were positioned so that the maneuver template didn't actually hit the proximity mine, it wouldn't trigger.

Quick seismic question:

will a ship that is equipped with stealth, lose the stealth ability when it suffers damage from a seismic charge?

jetsetter said:

No, it loses the stealth when it is "Hit."  Being Hit and being Damaged are not the same thing.  You would also not lose the stealth device if you took damage from proximity mine, an asteroid, or splash from assault missile.

That's what I figured.

It looks like this question is getting conflicting answers.

How do we expedite this question to get an official ruling on this

The problem.

A proximity mine template is placed partially under a ships base such that if the ship were to execute a manneuver the maneuver template would not touch the mine template. Does the mine detonate when the ship moves as the base already overlaps the token.

The proximity mine card

“When a ship executes a maneuver, if its base or maneuver template overlaps this token, this token detonates”

Page 7 of the rule book

“Execute Maneuver: Holding the template firmly in place, grip the side walls of the base and lift the ship off the play surface.

Then place the ship at the opposite end of the template, sliding the rear guides of the ship into the opposite end of the template.”

Opinion 1: As the base is on the mine token when the maneuver starts, it detonates.

Opinion 2: As you take the ship off the table to execute your maneuver, it does not detonate.

If the mine is treated as an obstacle (not specified anywhere) then opinion 2 would be correct as per the FAQ

FAQ 1.1 : Overlapping

Q: If a ship’s base overlaps an obstacle during the previous round,

is that ship automatically considered overlapping the same obstacle during the next round?

A: No. The ship does not move through or overlap that same obstacle

 unless the maneuver template it is using or its base after executing the maneuver overlap that obstacle again during the next round.

I saw this issue in the weekend where slave 1 flew almost head to head with the Falcon, flew past, dropped the proximity mine at the end of its movement so part of the token rested under the rear end of the Falcons base. At the time it was ruled that the mine detonated as soon as the falcon started it’s next maneuver with no chance to evade because we could find no reference to the mine being an obstacle. Not sure if it was the correct ruling at the time.

A careful rereading of the thread will reveal that this situation has been discussed - it is described in Scenario C of the original post. Early opinions were expressed that the mine would be set off in this situation, but subsequent discussion revealed that this was probably not the case, and the mine would not be set off. In the absence of an official ruling, this conclusion was arrived at by treating them like obstacles, which they resemble in many ways. The most reasonable interpretation was reached by applying the ruling that you quote from the FAQ on overlapping obstacles during the following round, chiefly the part about the base only counting after the maneuver. This interpretation is also supported by the core movement rules, where it is only the position of the base at the end of the move that counts.

There will probably not be a statement that "Proximity mines are obstacles", because that would involve rolling for even more damage, and losing an action as well. As it is we have used the closest thing we can find in the game to try to figure out how they work until a definitive ruling is made. I could actually see it going the other way, and the Prox Mine detonating when a ship begins its movement with its base overlapping the mine. But without official word we cannot know for sure.

As for expediting the question, has anyone here submitted it to FFG? There has been nothing but silence from the rules folks lately, and there are several somewhat contentious questions regarding certain Wave 2 combinations that need to be answered. FAQ 1.1 contains nothing that is Wave 2 specific. I am hopeful that the absence of rulings means they are getting ready to release the next FAQ, which will address difficult questions like this one. I am further hopeful that it will come out this week, before the Regionals Season officially begins on Saturday. Otherwise there is likely to be a lot of "local interpretation" for  the competitions.

Proximity Mine Card:

"When a ship executes amaneuver, if its base or maneuver template overlaps this token, this token detonates."

In Dropping a Bomb Token in p. 2 of the Slave 1 rulesheet

"If a bomb token is dropped on a ship, it is placed under the the ships base. The bomb does not immediately detonate and must follow these rules and restrictions."

Under Overlapping Other Ships p 17

"If a ship executes a maneuver that would cause the final position of its base to physically overlap another ship's base (even partially),…"

Under Obstacles p. 20

"When a ship executes a maneuver in which either the maneuver template or the ship's base physically overlaps an obstacle token,…

later on its states

" When overlapping an obstacle token, the ship stays where it lands (on top of the token)."

I can see where the grey area has come from. In all instances of overlapping it is assumed to have happend after a maneuver, not before. With bomb deployment, you get the possibility of an overlap like instance before a maneuver is even selected. But the rules for overlapping ship or obstacles happens after you have done a maneuver.

So the question becomes:

Can you be in an overlapping state, before you have performed a maneuver, with a bomb token?

Sergovan said:

This is the most  succinct summary of the question I've seen.

In this case I'd argue that the precedent has been set by the FAQ rergarding obstacles:

Q: If a ship’s base overlaps an obstacle
during the previous round, is that ship
automatically considered overlapping the
same obstacle during the next round?
A: No. The ship does not move through or overlap that
same obstacle unless the maneuver template it is
using or its base after executing the maneuver
overlap that obstacle again during the next round.

So, for obstacles it is NOT considered overlap before you have performed a maneuver. We know that mines are not defined as obstacles (and probably won't be), but they are closely related to obstacles in other respects. Until an official ruling is made, I guess it comes down to agreeing how to play it ahead of time. If your group plays a "least restrictive" style you'll probably opt for no overlap, no detonation. If you tend to play "most restrictive", then you'll likely go for the starting overlap & therefore detonation before the offending ship moves, but definitely not immediately upon placement.

I can honestly see this going either way, since the beginning overlap could be defined to occur for Bombs without nerfing the above ruling for obstacles. It will be interesting to see how this ultimately goes.