Jedi will always "dominate" over others.  I mean the sheer scope of the things they can do and the limitless power of the Force dictates that they reign over all.  It's just the way it is….plain and simple.

However, I've never had a campaign ruined by mixing Force Bad Asses with "mundane" Bad Asses.  Nor should it be. 

Characters don't need to be on par with Force users in order to have wicked cool campaigns with Bad Asses on both sides of the spectrum.  I mean, Han Solo couldn't do the shit Luke did or even come close in a million years, but that never stopped him from being Totally, Uber-Awesome and an undisputed favorite of all Star Wars characters.

 No.

Doesn't fit the setting. Isolated, force-sensitive individuals are cool, but Jedi don't belong. That said, I don't see how they intend to make all three games fit "seamlessly" together…

They might be referring to the system in general.  That by the time all the books are out, you'll pretty much be able to do any and everything you want to do.  Thus, once compiled together, they'll create one Mega-System.

Not at all.

Isn't supported by movie canon (not saying EU doesn't count, but most of my players could give a toss about EU).

I think of Jedi as being like Mariah Carey, they are going to be the center of attention even when they don't wish to be.  I think that would take away from the game setting of the outter rim.  

Additionally, moral decision making is going to be hard enough with just the classes I have (that are playing "good guys"), throwing in Jedi who can't morally waver…. doesn't sound wise. Kinda like playing a Pallidan in AD&D Ravenloft (showing my age here), wasn't the brightest idea.

GM Chris said:

I'd rather FFG spent the time giving us more starting starships or an in depth trading system, hell I'd rather have more races in the core book than wasting the time on something that is not the focus of EotE.

There are so many things that could be more useful right now, that I can wait.

No to jedi, this game isn't about them.

Yes to Force users and the ability to make low level Jedi wannabees, which is what we have at the moment..

However, I would like some templates, a la WEG, so that we could have failed Jedi Template or Masterless Padawan template, which would cover the types of Jedi trying to navigate the fringe during the EotE timeframe.

lupex said:

+1 to this (the templates). The WEG book got it so much of it right, but that's probably because they were only going off the original trilogy and the limited EU up until then.

I'm happy with no Jedi PC's in EotE - lightsaber duelling styles, force lightning/choking, holocrons, the trials, grey Jedi (a la Jacen Solo), Starkiller stuff can wait until a later book, if at all. I don't mind if there are stat blocks for NPC Jedi in the final book though as that is good for the GM to use, if needed.

Yes to Force users in the main book though. I'd like to see some rudimentary lightsaber skills, as well as ability to block blaster bolts (not bothered about redirect as that's feels a very Jedi thing). Minor telekinesis, dimming another's senses and control mind (last one more difficult, maybe all-but-impossible against non-minion NPCs ). Ability for hibernation trance, minor Force healing, sensing surroundings and oncoming threats, that sort of thing.

I'm quite positive about what I've heard so far - still trying to track down a copy of the beta rules (in the UK).

lupex said:

I could type out the same answer, or I could just quote this.

lupex said:

Edge of the Empire isn't about them, no.  Totally agree.

But should a "Star Wars RPG" be about them?

GM Chris said:

Eventually, yes, a "generic, non-era specific" Star Wars RPG should include playable Jedi that are capable of some of the high-end tricks (Force Lightning, redirecting blaster fire, quasi-mystical healing, deflecting blaster bolts with their hands, etc).  But as you said, Edge of the Empire is not that game, nor has it even pretended to be that game.

I'll call back to the early days of the SW Galaxies MMO, where Jedi PCs were an incredibly rare thing to see.  That game, set in the Rebellion Era, really only started dying off when Jedi were allowed to be generated en masse, to the point where you couldn't swing a dead monkey lizard without at least a dozen Jedi trying to block it with their ligthsabers.  While the combat upgrades caused more than it's share of the grief amidst the fanbase, the overabundance of Jedi drove way a large chunk of that fanbase.

Another poster in another thread put it pretty well that FFG's proposed plan of "three corebooks" mirrors the much-beloved Original Trilogy.  The first installment are the riff-raff of the Outer Rims, independent operators that are simply trying to get by in a galaxy that's fallen more and more into the hands of an oppressive regime.  The second installment will be for those brave enough to put aside their petty concerns and stand up to that regime for something better.  The final installment will be for those who either strive to maintain or have rediscoverd the traditions of a noble order and the lore pertaining to the source of that order's strength, things that the oppresive regime is actively trying to suppress, with the chance to either become some of the greatest heroes the galaxy has ever known or some of its most vile villains.

Besides, it's sometimes better to start small and expand gradually, adding spices and ingredients to the stew as they are needed rather than just try to dump everything into a single pot and hope it works out.  Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't.

Donovan Morningfire said:

Not to stir the hornets nest, but….

In all honesty, per the brief description of the Force book,  we may not get "official jedi" ever.  We will be given the tools to make them, but the book seems to ref. people trying to become jedi, or people that use the force that are not jedi.  (That kinda sticks with lore).

$hamrock said:

Well, for Edge of the Empire, that approach makes perfect sense.

But FFG has said that the third book is "Force and Destiny" and will be primarily about playing Jedi, and will likely include, if not a full chapter, at least some suggestions on running campaigns set in other eras when the Jedi were at the heights of their power.  In that book, there's like to be a full-blown Jedi Career, possibly broken down into two or three categories, with specializations under each branch.   I could see arguments both for and against making Jedi Sentinel a specialization under the Jedi Guardian career (kinda like how BioWare did with SW:TOR) rather than a full-blown career in its own right.  You could probably also have a couple of generic Force-user careers, one with a more spiritual bent for shamans, mystics, and the like, and then one with a more martial or physical leaning for warrior-based traditions, with each having specializations based off existing Force Traditions such as the Dathomir Witches, Fallanassi, Killian Rangers, Matukai, and Zieson Sha.

Donovan Morningfire said:

"Finally, in Star Wars: Force and Destiny, the players become figures of legend: the last surviving Force users in the galaxy. Hunted by the Empire, they must stay alive, and more importantly, stay true to the ideals of their forebears—the fabled Jedi."

That doesn't say "you are a jedi", and as far as I know that is the only "official" description of it.
That says forebears, the fabled Jedi- meaning they are gone and you're trying to live up to what they were. It is utterly impossible for one in the current to be an ancestor (forbear).  no matter how much I want to be George Washington, Abe Lincoln, or even one of my own ancestors, I am not that person.  Again, most likely just a title thing, as I am sure one will be very jedi-like in their skills.

$hamrock said:

Well, by the Rebellion Era, the Jedi Order as it existed during the days of the Republic are gone, so being able to play "practically trained from birth" Jedi is going to be nigh-impossible.  However, there is the example of Luke Skywalker and the initial crop of Jedi that he trained.  While they may not have had the benefit of life-long training, they certainly were Jedi.

Now while having full-fledged Jedi/Force careers is one way to go, another option that I mentioned in a different thread was the concept of "advanced careers," of a similar vein to d20 Prestige Classes or even WFRP2e's Advanced Classes.  Pretty much, these would be specializations you could only take after satisfying certain requirements.  For example, a Jedi Guardian advanced spec could require a minimum of Force Rating 2 as well as 2 ranks in Lightsaber and Vigilance and maybe even a combat-centric talent or two in order to purchase it, while a Jedi Consular advanced spec would still have the Force Rating 2 requirement, but different skill and/or talent requirements.

The Advanced Spec method would be a way to reflect how characters are following Luke's path to becoming a Jedi Knight, namely being trained as a Jedi much later in life, in short allowing those people that have been playing characters from Edge of the Empire a means to enter into various Force-using specs without being entirely lagging behind freshly-made characters using Force & Destiny.

Donovan Morningfire said:

Good points…

In honesty, I question more the "what are they going to fight?" then anything else, assuming they stay in the current time period.  A near jedi, insinuates there is still some room for growth, ie lower power level.   The "good" thing about the jedi running in short supply, it means the sith/dark jedi are also running low, again assuming they stick with movie canon.  That means, pretty much… Vader, as far as sith are concerned. 

Your prior post brought some other groups up, like the witches, but I can't see an entire campaign run around them, especially if the whole group isn't composed of force users.  

Just seems like a jedi would eat a squad of storm troopers, and the stuff that is going to be a challenge to the jedi is going to rip the bounty hunters/doctors/ etc…. a new ass.

Note:  this is an interesting debate to me, I'm not trying to be all asshole with you or anything.  You articulate well… and I tend to gravitate towards that.