Guys, no offense taken. Relax :)

In no way I want to pick fight with players.

Nor with FFG, for the record.

It is just that, IF the idea behind the Beta is/was to let us, players, be part of the creative process, charging this much seems to defeat the purpose. 

I now understand that George Lucas seems to have demanded that NO PDF should be 'printed' (yeah, 'cos THAT will stop digital piracy…), which significantly makes everything more difficult in terms of playtesting and spreading the idea (thanks a lot George! o_O).

But yeah, I was very disappointed with the course taken by FFG and I wanted to express it, since I have lots of friends here who, though not vocal about it in forums, do share this view. The main point is that I want FFG to be aware of this. I am totally cool with the players who bought the item, I myself plan to buy not the Beta (such as it is now), but the Final ver. for sure. But, it seems to me the company is capitalizing over an unfinished/unpolished product, which is not cool.

For those who are reading the book right now, if there is indeed good will on FFG's part to listen to ideas on how to improve this until the final version is printed, the time is NOW gentleman. ;)

Keep the dice rolling people!

For the Alliance!

OK cool… I suddenly got worried I upset you after re-reading a couple things.

I totally get your point of view, and I can tell you I would be right there with you on some other things, but I would more be like… "Well that is stupid of them to do… I will NOT be taking part" and leave it at that.

Unfortunately we are talking about Star Wars, and people lose their minds over Star Wars. Too much emotion attached to it… and I am one of those masses. LOL. So I lined right up and said… "YES SIR! here is my $30… book please!."

But then again, I really feel I am paying to play it early… but I will contribute anything I find odd, out of place or game breaking.

Mabuhay!

hey you never know, they might give a discount to those who bought the beta book and helped work on making it better. Maybe when you order the book, you will be shocked and there will be a coupon in the back, save 10% off your purchase or something…

I've been on the fence about getting the beta.  30 dollars is a fair bit for a book that is not the final version.  45 with shipping if I ordered it directly from FFG.

As it has been stated, some of the reason behind the cost is:

• It is a full colour physical copy - believe it or not, these cost money to produce
• LucasArts holds all the rights to digital gaming when it comes to Star Wars - There can't be a PDF copy of this
• There IS a cost as this is a licensed property.

There are a plethora of other reasons I'm sure.  Now, as a player each of us has to decide if we want this or not.  This isn't the final game, you do not have to buy this.  Plain and simple.  You don't like it, don't buy it then.  Wait a few more months.  Not a big deal.  Personally, I'm getting this because I'm trying to make my own RPG, and I like reading/looking at as many different mechanics as possible.  I'm not  going to spend the 100 bucks to play WFRP3e, but I'm interested in the mechanics.   These are highlighted quite well in this book as far as I know.

Also think about how this book is presented.  While it says Star Wars on the cover.  Well, since it's all about the fringe sorts you could easily adapt this system to whatever setting you want.  Want to run Firefly? There you go.  Traveller-esque free traders?  Freelancer?  You name it. All the characters at the raggedy edge.

Another thing is this book is all crunch, and no/little fluff.  If the rules stay the same or with minor errata, there's no reason why this book wouldn't be useful down the road.  Starting a new campaign?  Well, now you have two books for your group to make characters from, rather than just one.  Lots of groups like having multiple core books.  But if the final product is pricier than the beta (and we all know it will) it might not be cost effective to have more than one copy.

Now, if cost is an issue, and there are lots of reasons it can be, talk to your group.  You may only need one book.. If you have 6 people, 5 bucks a piece isn't so bad, and if you get 10+hours out if this game, you've more than paid for it in my opinion.  Where I live, if I go to the theatre to see a movie or play, I'm spending 10-15 dollars for 2 hours.  This book is 30 bucks, and I'll probably get more than 4 hours enjoyment out of it.

All that being said, I would love if FFG did something like you register the book, and you get a free set of dice down the road or something, but if they don't, well too bad.  Not going to lose sleep over it.

NAML said:

You know what NAML? I have a lot of respect for you. I know this book has inspired a lot of controversial, opinionated remarks from people - both for it, and against it - but the manner that you choose to put across your own, and how you react to the responses of others, shows true maturity. Kuddos.

I can understand why people are miffed at having to pay for a product that could, in all likelihood, adopt several changes between now and the finished piece. And I can also understand why others don't care, how they'd rather adopt the "glass half-full" approach, and how they're willing to roll with the punches if any changes DO result from what they discover whilst gaming.

The way I like to think of this is: this is just like playing any other game system. WotC released 3 versions of Star Wars, each with heavily modified rules - you KNEW that more was coming, because each new film in the prequel trilogy that was released would be an opportunity for further income via updated product releases. But despite this, you purchased the books anyways - because, if only for a while, you would be able to use a good system to take you to that galaxy far, far away.

I'm fully aware that the rules might change, or that, if they don't, then I'll essentially be paying more for the exact same material that I'd already have bought. But I don't care: this is a chance for me to show my support for a company that has, in the past, proved to be a solid company, pumping out solid products. I can respect that, and I respect the opportunity they're giving me to play a game early that - until a few days ago - I thought was far, far, far from the stage of development that it actually is.

Here ends my personal input. And now: pizza.

Damocles346 said:

I am glad you grasped on what he really meant ;) lol…..

I agree with ya!!

Lord Nikon said:

I like your thinking and its possible they could do something like that before release. I am all for it!!!

NAML said:

What percentage of players bought DND 3.5 or SW Saga Edition when it came out (although they already owned the first version of the rules)? I did, and most of my friends did too. Yes, there was more than a year from 3.0 to 3.5, or SW d20 to SW Saga. But many of us pay again anyway to get that fresh ink smell and a book with accurate rules instead of our own pen and paper corrections.

As for Pathfinder, much of that system was already created years ago, so there was little "back to the drawing board," whereas it looks like SW Edge of Empire required more originality.

$30 for a year of playing a brand new Star Wars RPG seems like a good deal. It's a big book (over 200 pages I think). It looks like it's 90% finished, so I'd look at the official rules that come out in 9-12 months as errata/FAQ to this book.

BradPlogsted said:

For what it is worth, the physical copy of the Pathfinder Beta was definitely NOT free.  If I remember correctly, it was in the $30-$40 range.  It sits on my shelf next to the Pathfinder Core Rulebook as a collectors item for me.  We've already established that they dont have the option of free pdf's.

As for Star Wars, given what I have seen so far, the system itself wasn't exactly going back to the drawing board.  The attributes and dice mechanics are slight variations of the WHFRP3 system.  Granted, it is being applied to a new setting and it has overhauled many other aspects but I don't think this system was exactly starting from scratch.

I thought it was a cool surprise to come out of Gen Con.  Here we have a fully playable system that nobody knew was developed as far as it had been and they not only announce it but provide a beta copy of the rules for us to pick through and offer feedback.

I understand the irritation some are having but I think had they just come out with a final version, it would have had issues that people would have said, why did they do this or why did they do that or I sure wish there was a better job of editing.  This is like giving players an opportunity to tell them up front where it may need to be fixed, mechanically, virtually, or whatever.

NAML said:

Tell you what, its a nice book and I am going to have fun playing it with my group, its $30 so what.  Quit your belly aching and either buy it and play or don't and leave everyone else alone.  It's like this on every forum on the net, every jerk who thinks they know how to run FFG and the Star Wars line has a stupid ass opinion about a book they know nothing about and mainly they complain about not wanting to pay for a beta or it's only worth $5.00 or should be free (which is really a complete game and very nice) compared to D&D Next which is a POS PDF.   Not to mention, you don't have to report to FFG if you don't want to, unlike WoTC D&D Next Beta, which is required to get the download.  So as to your post, no I don't agree with you.

eldath said:

Lets be real here,  the copy right costs, alone, were enough to send Hasbro (WotC), running.  I can't imagine what they might be, but Mongoose couldn't afford them, Weiss Productions couldn't afford them, Hasbro didn't see enough "black" with them, even Pazio, in its infant stages couldn't afford them (all noted by the CEOs of said companies) etc…  Not only are they paying for the copy rights, but in making a great game, they opted to put out a beta, for feedback.  With that said, they are not putting anything else out for the RPG this year, so they are paying for copy rights for something that are not even using for the year, (Yes the rights to minis, cards, and rpgs, are separate, as wizards dumped the minis line prior to the RPG line). 

In an effort to make a better game, I support the price of the beta, fully.   Now the shipping, is another story.  They should have a media mail option, or something, as I could mail this same book for less then 3 dollars and have it get there at the same time.