Gentlemen,

I am a proud FFG client.

Your products have uncanny details, are fun to play and the company itself is very committed with the game community.

I was VERY excited that the Star Wars RPG game would be continued (or rather remade) by you.

I just heard the news on the announcement of Edge of the Empire and was heading straight to download a copy of the Beta version in order to read and give you guys an ASAP feedback…

It was with great surprise that I discovered that not only FFG was charging for the beta product but also it was almost U$ 30,00!

So, really, the idea is to charge us AND ask for feedback? o_O

I mean, I'd be GLAD to contribute with a symbolic donation to the Rebel cause, like U$ 5,00. Five, not thirty.

So I decided to write and see if there is any other sentient being that agrees with me. Maybe if enough voices join the chorus, we may be able to convince you guys to think this over. As a concrete example I give you the famous RPG Pathfinder - Beta version. It was free, the game developed with fans' help and is a giant on the field of fantasy. The final version of the product is sailing great, by the way.

Thanks for reading this.

May the Force be with us all.

Sincerely,

- Nelson Lemos

This book is full color, and looks like a full blown game book. If you do not wish to play the game early and/or assist in the beta, then you could just wait for the final release. They are under no obligation to follow anyone else's system for running their Beta.

Please keep in mind, participation in the beta is voluntary. No one saying if you do not play the beta, then you cannot get the game next year.

 Of course FFG has the right to do as they see fit with their product.

I am not arguing against that.

But, if you ask people to help improve your game, and you are going to charge them for doing so… seems… unproductive.

 PDF was nixed by Lucas and so can only be done as a print book and needs to pay for the licensing, hence the book I now hod and am pleased with.

I understand your point of view, but purchasing it did not come with a requirement or document to sign saying you agree to assist in the beta. I am pretty certain that FFG is happy to sell it to you as an early adopter. Of course, they just know that most people will because if they find something they do not like, they will most likely voice their opinions.

My feeling on this is that I would have no problem paying $30 for the beta so long as a discount was available against the final version. I fully appreciate that ,especially with a print version, there are costs that must be met. But lets be honest, even with printing and copyright costs there is no way that the book costs $30. I believe the best way would be $30 outlay to get the book and (working on the assumption of $15 costs for fantasy flight including printing and copyright) and a $15 discount from the final version.

I think making a profit off of a beta test copy willl only annoy many customers and foster ill will toward the company. I do not think that a complete discount like only war would work though as fantasy flight do have overheads to meet and they have paid out for the beta copies and sitckers to be printed.

Eldath

I really fail to see what the problem is with a company trying to make a profit, especially on a license as expensive as Star Wars. As has been established FFG could not provide a PDF version of this document per their licensing agreements with Lucasfilm so that's not even a viable option.

Had this been a photocopied, spiral bound edition as wad the original Star Wars D20 playtest book, then yes I would be pretty miffed. But this is a full color, professionally bound book that frankly is of a higher quality than many completed RPGs. Add to that the license alone and I think $30 is a reasonable price.

Would I like to have a coupon for a discount, sure. But it's not like FFG is forcing you to buy this… The choice is yours.  Don't like the price, then don't buy it.

Yancy

eldath said:

Ah, so a role-playing book is only worth the value of the printing expense and the paper.  The words on the paper must simply magically appear with no development, writing or artists costs.

That said I too think FFG should give a discount to those who bought the beta when the finished product comes out.  Or a FAQ to reflect the changes on the final product.

 I'm glad some did grasp what I meant. :)

NAML said:

Sadly others obviously haven't. No I am not saying that a roleplaying book is only worth the value of the printing etc., what I am saying is that the development, writing and art costs should be paid for as normal through sales of the final item not a Beta copy. I have no issue with paying for the cost of a Beta but charging $30 for a beta which is pretty much the important parts of the game and then charging another $40-50 for the final item, Fantasy Flight may find people either not bothering with the Beta or only buying the Beta because apart from setting which experienced star wars fans and refs can deal with and art which though nice is not vital the game, will be a completely playable version. I am happy to pay the cost of the Beta and then pay full price for the final version but paying $70-80 is too much.

Eldath

Regardless of what you actually meant to say, this is what it sounds like you are saying:

"AWWWW, I want a copy now!!! I don't want a crappy copy, I want a real copy!!! How come all of these other people get to play with it but you won't give it to me for free!! Look at my awesomeness, you obviously should pander to my every need and desire regardless of reality or the fact that I would never submit a play test ever!!! You are doing it wrong!!! I should get what I want!!!"

All the rest of us are happily enjoying a new Star Wars product, and your single forum thread is not going to convince FFG to give you a free game, it's not going to convince Lucas to stop being a bastard, and it's not going to stop the majority of people from getting a beta copy. You sir tire me.

I absolutly have nothing against how other people spend their money. It's yours.

Also, I am completly fine with paying good money on a good product.

This a a tabletop RPG, not a computer MMORP,so I really don't get it about "playing it first". Evererybody will play it all the same eventualy. There is no competition.

That said, my issue is that a Beta version implies that the product is not yet fully functional. You are paying for a book that after released will get at least a 2-pages-errata, combat or other rules modification, and so on. 

If the product is completly playable and all is set right, then the marketing went wrong. It should be a Limited Special Edition, with more content than the regular version. And don't ask us for feedback. If it sucks (and I doubt it does), the complains will come naturally. If it is extremily well built, why bother? The only feedback then will be aplause.

What I am criticizing is that by charging expensively on the Beta, the idea of integrating the fans into the creation (or rather, the perfection) of the system is just wasted. I for one would be really glad to give share my insights and help to make better this game that we all love.

So I am very sorry if you read this as an anger towards the other players, who are brothers in dice. I am simply pointing out that I don't think this is the best way they could go with the advertisement of the product, and I think there is much more people out there who agrees with this point of view.

The least FFG could do, like a lot of people have pointed out, is to offer a good discount on the final edition of the product, since they are chargin so much for the Beta.

Hope this did clarify.

And may the Force be with FFG, to make this the best version of the game ever (I am a big fan of them, like I said).

Please refrain from personal attacks and insults. This forum is meant for players to voice their opinions and ask questions, not for people to get into flame wars. Everyone has a right to an opinion and everyone should respect that and not jump down peoples throats for suggesting something that you might disagree with.

I can see what NAML was asking and at no point did he suggest that he should get the book for free. The suggestion of a discount similar to the Only War beta is not a stupid one, both he and I have said that we would be happy for FFG to get the costs back, printing, copyright fees etc.  do cost but realistically not providing at least some discount from the final version may cost them sales as people may choose to buy the Beta and not bother with the final version.

I personally joined in the Only War Beta and emailed several suggestions and comments to FFG, but I also believe that some discount would be a good idea so I find your attack on NAML unfounded and unpleasant.

E

NAML said:

I understood what you mean, I just thinking that printing costs alone would not allow a $5 book, or $30 off the final book. I could see some kind of small cost reduction though.

eldath said:

It's funny to me that he understood what I was saying and you deem it a personal attack. If you would read the top of my post, the part that says, 'Regardless of what you were trying to say…' So I wasn't personally attacking him, I was letting him know how he communicated his idea to me. The way he responded was masterful, and I gained a lot of respect for him in that response, as he made good points. I still might think he is picking at things that don't need to be picked at, but I also acknowledge that he is true to his own reasoning.

I would like to state for the record, I was not trying to attack or insult you in any way. I seriously apologize if I made you feel this way.