I think a lot of fantastic work has been done in the existing specializations, talent trees, and careers. While I enjoy the greater flexibility of a "pure" point-build system without the rails of classes, it can't be denied that classes - however mechanically superficial they may be - inject a lot of flavor from the setting. They also play very well with the generalized market of gamers. They're quickly digestible and make it accessible. It just looks sexy to have a full page "class" outline with a large, shiny, artist's rendering of what that class could look like.

So I don't see any value to throwing the baby out with the bathwater and completely scrapping the existing framework of categorizations. The specializations and talent trees can exist as they are. Simply changing the cost structure for non-career elements will open it up to unfettered flexibility.

I agree that what GoblynByte suggests is the easiest and perhaps the best solution. The talent trees vary in quality for sure, but they are interesting and cool. In addition if you could construct your own career/archetype by mixing and matching between all of them, your politico-assassin-thief is going to be really cool.

I would like to see career skills go out the window though, but even keeping them: add if at all possible, talent-tree combination perks (for the three first only) OR/AND add a starting item for each specialisation… perhaps a pick between two - the assassin could get the choice of disguise kit or a weapon he gets ranks for using… and with talent trees beyond the three first have increased cost (I really don't know WHY I want that, but I do… for some reason related to "fairness" or something…)… as the three first define you archetype, or is based upon an already existing archetype/career.

This is a funny post in a thread that you started about having a classless system.

 What I mean is this, at character creation we are given 8 career skills and then up to 4 more career skills with the first specialization. And then in character advancement we can buy ranks in career skills and non-career skills (at an inflated xp cost) or we can buy a new specialization that gives us access to up to 4 new career skills.

My proposal is that at character creation we are given 8 starting skills and then up to 4 more starting skills with the first specialization. And then in character advancement we can buy access to new learned skills, increase current skills , or buy a new specialization (but only to gain access to the relevant talent tree, no more extra career skills).

So to buy access to a new learned skill costs a flat rate of 5 XP and then you can buy ranks in this skill as per the current guidelines for increasing career skills. I think that this is a good compromise between the current inflated price of non-career skills and the need to have a distinction between skills that you start with and skills that you buy later.

It would also mean that any character that starts off with ranks in a non-career skill, because of racial bonuses, keeps that skill as an extra starting skill.

This would also solve some of the issues brought up in the classless system discussion.

I had a thought about skill progression and I think it ties into the idea of an archetype build, I originally posted this in the skill feedback thread but I though it worth reposting here for feedback;

lupex said:

I like the idea, but I think there is a simpler way of doing this - just treat all skills as "career" but make the first rank of any skill cost 5Xp more.

So if you got the first rank of a skll at chargen - you've already got it covered. If you buy into the skill after chargen, you pay the extra 5XP with your first skill rank.

This does mean that skills which are theoretically in your starting career still cost more if you didn't take them at chargen - but I think that's actually reasonable.

It also means that you can do the whole thing with one table instead of having a career/non-career distinction.