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Feedback on the rules for the Edge of the Empire Beta
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nobble said:
Another option that I tried out during the couple of playtests I've had was to allow Forceusers to work up to the Requirements for a force skill.
So by spending 1 strain they can roll over a previous turns force roll into the next, allowing them to add strength, range, etc to the inital startup cost of a force power
e.g. Bob the Force User want to start up his Defensive Sense Power. To do this he need 2 force points. One for Sense and one for the modifier/talent. The first round he rolls 1 LS.. not enough, but enough to start the basic Sense power. In round 2 he decides to really concentrate then and spend a strain and adds round 1 total of 1LS to this rounds roll of 1LS.. This is enough to start the power, but he will need to keep spending 1 strain a round to keep it going as it is obviously a struggle to keep it going..
Sort of replicates Luke's effects with the XWing… He could move it a bit, but the strain was really showing, until he hits his strain threathold and it falls to the ground.
Not sure at higher levels how this may be broken, I havn't totally thought it through..
It's an interesting idea, though your example doesn't work as the Defense Upgrade for Sense is an Ongoing Effect, and doesn't require any FP to activate.
I'm guessing that doing this would cost the Force-user their action on each round they want to maintain the effect.
The one thing that feels problematic (to me at least) is that once a Force-user gets that initial LS point, it just becomes a matter of not exceeding your Strain Threshold. Also, what if the Force-user rolls more than 1 LS point on their Force dice? After all, most of the LS facings have 2 pips, so odds are decent that they'll have 2 LS to start with. Under this proposed change, would the character simply add 1 LS per round, or double the amount of LS generated on the initial roll? If it's a case of "double the initial result," then this could get very problematic very quickly, especially when it comes to Move, as a decent initial roll could allow a low-level PC to bust out several Upgrades on the second round (Strength plus two activations of Range).
Contributing Author of the GSA at http://gsa.thegamernation.org/
"If you've never seen an elephant ski, then you've never done acid."
- Eddie Izzard
I have noticed that a few basic abilities seem to be missed in the Force powers. I realize that they are Jedi-Related so they might be an issue in the Era that this game is set in, but I think it deserves a mention:
1. There seems to be no way to block blaster bolts as was one of the most basic abilities of the Jedi or most Lightsaber users for that matter. Is there a rule set or Talent tree that has yet to be published for this (Lightsaber combat would be my suggestion)?
2. I have not seen anything that allows for the jumps, acrobatic ability, speed or other movement capacities that made force-users both interesting and survivable. There are already armor modifications that aid speed, stealth and maneuverability that are not mirrored for force-users.
3. There is a type of Force-User called the Jensaarai that I found both interesting and playable, though rarely fleshed out fully in ANY edition of Star Wars. Any chance that these force-users will be mentioned, particularly since they were both existant and active in this era?
Again, I am fully aware that the Galactic Empire Era did not have an abundance of Force users, but since the storyline has always included force-users as part of what made the setting unique, it is a shame that there is not more representation of them here. Will this change at all?
dreddwulf1 said:
I have noticed that a few basic abilities seem to be missed in the Force powers. I realize that they are Jedi-Related so they might be an issue in the Era that this game is set in, but I think it deserves a mention:
1. There seems to be no way to block blaster bolts as was one of the most basic abilities of the Jedi or most Lightsaber users for that matter. Is there a rule set or Talent tree that has yet to be published for this (Lightsaber combat would be my suggestion)?
2. I have not seen anything that allows for the jumps, acrobatic ability, speed or other movement capacities that made force-users both interesting and survivable. There are already armor modifications that aid speed, stealth and maneuverability that are not mirrored for force-users.
3. There is a type of Force-User called the Jensaarai that I found both interesting and playable, though rarely fleshed out fully in ANY edition of Star Wars. Any chance that these force-users will be mentioned, particularly since they were both existant and active in this era?
Again, I am fully aware that the Galactic Empire Era did not have an abundance of Force users, but since the storyline has always included force-users as part of what made the setting unique, it is a shame that there is not more representation of them here. Will this change at all?
1. Blocking blaster bolts isn't a basic ability by any stretch. Minor TK, focusing on a task, and sensing basic life forces are basic abilities. If you want to know how to block blaster bolts (not redirect them) look no further than the Sense Force power. Upgrading ranged attacks sounds like blocking with your lightsaber, or knowing where not to be.
2. Page 177, specifically the Touch of Fate and Intense Focus talents. Remember, jumps/acrobatic ability are handled with an Athletics skill check, so both mentioned talents can increase your dice pool when making an athletics roll. As for speed upgrades, all characters move at the same speed, but an upgraded athletics skill check can make it easier to roll the two advantage symbols that let you take a free maneuver with your skill roll.
3. I wouldn't expect to see Jensaarai, Dathomiri Witches, or any other Force traditions until the Force and Destiny book and/or supplements show up.
-EF
EldritchFire said:
dreddwulf1 said:
I have noticed that a few basic abilities seem to be missed in the Force powers. I realize that they are Jedi-Related so they might be an issue in the Era that this game is set in, but I think it deserves a mention:
1. There seems to be no way to block blaster bolts as was one of the most basic abilities of the Jedi or most Lightsaber users for that matter. Is there a rule set or Talent tree that has yet to be published for this (Lightsaber combat would be my suggestion)?
2. I have not seen anything that allows for the jumps, acrobatic ability, speed or other movement capacities that made force-users both interesting and survivable. There are already armor modifications that aid speed, stealth and maneuverability that are not mirrored for force-users.
3. There is a type of Force-User called the Jensaarai that I found both interesting and playable, though rarely fleshed out fully in ANY edition of Star Wars. Any chance that these force-users will be mentioned, particularly since they were both existant and active in this era?
Again, I am fully aware that the Galactic Empire Era did not have an abundance of Force users, but since the storyline has always included force-users as part of what made the setting unique, it is a shame that there is not more representation of them here. Will this change at all?
1. Blocking blaster bolts isn't a basic ability by any stretch. Minor TK, focusing on a task, and sensing basic life forces are basic abilities. If you want to know how to block blaster bolts (not redirect them) look no further than the Sense Force power. Upgrading ranged attacks sounds like blocking with your lightsaber, or knowing where not to be.
2. Page 177, specifically the Touch of Fate and Intense Focus talents. Remember, jumps/acrobatic ability are handled with an Athletics skill check, so both mentioned talents can increase your dice pool when making an athletics roll. As for speed upgrades, all characters move at the same speed, but an upgraded athletics skill check can make it easier to roll the two advantage symbols that let you take a free maneuver with your skill roll.
3. I wouldn't expect to see Jensaarai, Dathomiri Witches, or any other Force traditions until the Force and Destiny book and/or supplements show up.
-EF
Deflecting Blaster Bolts: I can see where that is going, though it is one of the first abilities a lightsaber user seems to learn, and every one of them (Jedi, Sith or even some other force-users that happen to use it) seem to have it. I'd learn it early, but maybe that's more the way each are trained. I am curious as to how "Upgrading Ranged Attack" equates to blocking blaster bolts, but I can see where the sense power comes into play for the sake of where not to be or where the lightsaber needs to be to protect someone.
Jumps/Acrobatics: I'll take a look at those, thanks for the reference and Page Number.
Jensaarai: I wasn't expecting any really early answers, so that makes sense.
Again, thank you for the time and information. I appreciate your input and the speed at which you answered.
dreddwulf1 said:
EldritchFire said:
dreddwulf1 said:
I have noticed that a few basic abilities seem to be missed in the Force powers. I realize that they are Jedi-Related so they might be an issue in the Era that this game is set in, but I think it deserves a mention:
1. There seems to be no way to block blaster bolts as was one of the most basic abilities of the Jedi or most Lightsaber users for that matter. Is there a rule set or Talent tree that has yet to be published for this (Lightsaber combat would be my suggestion)?
2. I have not seen anything that allows for the jumps, acrobatic ability, speed or other movement capacities that made force-users both interesting and survivable. There are already armor modifications that aid speed, stealth and maneuverability that are not mirrored for force-users.
3. There is a type of Force-User called the Jensaarai that I found both interesting and playable, though rarely fleshed out fully in ANY edition of Star Wars. Any chance that these force-users will be mentioned, particularly since they were both existant and active in this era?
Again, I am fully aware that the Galactic Empire Era did not have an abundance of Force users, but since the storyline has always included force-users as part of what made the setting unique, it is a shame that there is not more representation of them here. Will this change at all?
1. Blocking blaster bolts isn't a basic ability by any stretch. Minor TK, focusing on a task, and sensing basic life forces are basic abilities. If you want to know how to block blaster bolts (not redirect them) look no further than the Sense Force power. Upgrading ranged attacks sounds like blocking with your lightsaber, or knowing where not to be.
2. Page 177, specifically the Touch of Fate and Intense Focus talents. Remember, jumps/acrobatic ability are handled with an Athletics skill check, so both mentioned talents can increase your dice pool when making an athletics roll. As for speed upgrades, all characters move at the same speed, but an upgraded athletics skill check can make it easier to roll the two advantage symbols that let you take a free maneuver with your skill roll.
3. I wouldn't expect to see Jensaarai, Dathomiri Witches, or any other Force traditions until the Force and Destiny book and/or supplements show up.
-EF
Deflecting Blaster Bolts: I can see where that is going, though it is one of the first abilities a lightsaber user seems to learn, and every one of them (Jedi, Sith or even some other force-users that happen to use it) seem to have it. I'd learn it early, but maybe that's more the way each are trained. I am curious as to how "Upgrading Ranged Attack" equates to blocking blaster bolts, but I can see where the sense power comes into play for the sake of where not to be or where the lightsaber needs to be to protect someone.
Jumps/Acrobatics: I'll take a look at those, thanks for the reference and Page Number.
Jensaarai: I wasn't expecting any really early answers, so that makes sense.
Again, thank you for the time and information. I appreciate your input and the speed at which you answered.
For deflecting blaster bolts, it's nothing more than not getting hit by them, right? So increasing the difficulty to attack you sounds like it's as good a description as any. However, I'm sure there will be a lightsaber combat power down the line that gives deflection 2 when wielding a lightsaber, with perhaps the ability to throw the darn thing as part of it, since the current Move power doesn't really let you do that.
-CR
True enough on not getting hit, and it might be nice to keep it simple so that a character can use the sense ability to simply DODGE the darn bolts. Nobody seems to have checked that option yet.
As for lightsaber combat, I hope so. Call me Saber-lover, but I like 'em. Fugitive or otherwise, bringing a proverbial knife to a gun-fight and kicking butt with it is just plain fun!
Thank you, and may the force be with you (cliche, but still good).
How do you resist force powers? As it stands right now, the average beginner force user can just go up to any non-Hutt (or other race that has an outright immunity) and use Influence to make anyone do anything, no matter what the result on the Force Die (Dark side dots on the die only mean you take Strain for doing so.)
Not to mention in the skill section, it states that Discipline is important to Force Sensitives, and I just came across a small blurb in Vigilance stating that it matters too. However, there's no mention of the skills, or any skill for that matter in the Force section of the book. And none of the Weekly Updates mentions it.
Without Signature
Chris Brady said:
How do you resist force powers? As it stands right now, the average beginner force user can just go up to any non-Hutt (or other race that has an outright immunity) and use Influence to make anyone do anything, no matter what the result on the Force Die (Dark side dots on the die only mean you take Strain for doing so.)
Not to mention in the skill section, it states that Discipline is important to Force Sensitives, and I just came across a small blurb in Vigilance stating that it matters too. However, there's no mention of the skills, or any skill for that matter in the Force section of the book. And none of the Weekly Updates mentions it.
Actually, the Week 2 Update majorly changes the Force Powers.
Short version: The initial Control Upgrades for Move (attack a target) and Influence (mink trick) now require an opposed Discipline roll as well as a Force Rating roll, and you have to generate enough Force Points and successes in order to pull them off. To say nothing of needing additional Force Points if you want to use all those upgrades you've purchased.
Thus, Discipline becomes important for Force-users (better chance of activating Force Powers that target others) and Move and Influence aren't overly broken in the hands of a starting character.
Contributing Author of the GSA at http://gsa.thegamernation.org/
"If you've never seen an elephant ski, then you've never done acid."
- Eddie Izzard
dreddwulf1 said:
3. There is a type of Force-User called the Jensaarai that I found both interesting and playable, though rarely fleshed out fully in ANY edition of Star Wars. Any chance that these force-users will be mentioned, particularly since they were both existant and active in this era?
About 1: I could see a future sense upgrade, although more likely a talent tree - not power - (requiring sense and a couple of upgrades perhaps) that allows you to add setback dice to ranged attacks - akin to a defence bonus - where, if the attack is unsuccessful, the number of threats rolled (on the setback die/dice) are used as successes as an attack against the attacker, perhaps cancelled out by the amount of advantages he rolled - if net result is positive then wham, weapon damage to attacker. I can also see that this is initially limited to the short range band - further away required upgrades. Or simply, upgrading to challenge dice x amount of times, where Despairs are successful deflections and redirects the attack back to its origin.
About 3: I'd love to see something on them too, but for now you can "easily" enough create one using the gadgeteer (for their armour beardness) and exile-force sensitive talent tree, winging some sort of UCT rules.
"What about the future…? We can only hope, we cannot however account for the minutiae of the quanta, as all accidents in an infinite space are inevitable."
dreddwulf1 said:
True enough on not getting hit, and it might be nice to keep it simple so that a character can use the sense ability to simply DODGE the darn bolts. Nobody seems to have checked that option yet.
As for lightsaber combat, I hope so. Call me Saber-lover, but I like 'em. Fugitive or otherwise, bringing a proverbial knife to a gun-fight and kicking butt with it is just plain fun!
I imagine we'll start seeing blaster deflection rules as we get closer to Force & Destiny.
As lots of other folks have noted, FFG appears to be going for an Original Trilogy feel for Edge of the Empire, and going by the movies, the only time we saw blaster deflection and reflection in combat, was Return of the Jedi, where Luke was pretty much a Jedi Knight in all but name. Even in the Prequel Trilogy, we really only saw blaster deflection/reflection being done by people that were either at Jedi Knight level of ability or better.
A deliberate design choice was made to not let the PCs be able to become Jedi Knights or other highly-proficient Force-users, and that is going to result in some abilities simply not being available to the PCs until much later in the product line.
Personally, I'm thinking Blaster Reflection would be a talent found under a Jedi specialization(s) rather than a separate Force Power or bend-out of the Sense Power. Could probably add it to the Force specializations for Sith as well. Don't know enough about Jensaarai to determine whether they should or shouldn't be able to reflect blaster fire.
Perhaps mechanics-wise, the Blaster Reflection talent would trigger if the foe rolls a certain number of Threats on their attack roll. It would certainly make that Deflect quality that much sweeter… once the PCs have a way to get access to it (which I'm thinking would also be a talent, to let the Jedi character add the Defensive and Deflect quality to their lightsaber when wielding it).
Contributing Author of the GSA at http://gsa.thegamernation.org/
"If you've never seen an elephant ski, then you've never done acid."
- Eddie Izzard
Donovan Morningfire said:
Chris Brady said:
How do you resist force powers? As it stands right now, the average beginner force user can just go up to any non-Hutt (or other race that has an outright immunity) and use Influence to make anyone do anything, no matter what the result on the Force Die (Dark side dots on the die only mean you take Strain for doing so.)
Not to mention in the skill section, it states that Discipline is important to Force Sensitives, and I just came across a small blurb in Vigilance stating that it matters too. However, there's no mention of the skills, or any skill for that matter in the Force section of the book. And none of the Weekly Updates mentions it.
Actually, the Week 2 Update majorly changes the Force Powers.
Short version: The initial Control Upgrades for Move (attack a target) and Influence (mink trick) now require an opposed Discipline roll as well as a Force Rating roll, and you have to generate enough Force Points and successes in order to pull them off. To say nothing of needing additional Force Points if you want to use all those upgrades you've purchased.
Thus, Discipline becomes important for Force-users (better chance of activating Force Powers that target others) and Move and Influence aren't overly broken in the hands of a starting character.
Week two? Why wasn't it kept for week 3-5? OK, then. However, what about Vigilance, the book claims that it has a use as well.
Without Signature
Donovan Morningfire said:
Personally, I'm thinking Blaster Reflection would be a talent found under a Jedi specialization(s) rather than a separate Force Power or bend-out of the Sense Power. Could probably add it to the Force specializations for Sith as well. Don't know enough about Jensaarai to determine whether they should or shouldn't be able to reflect blaster fire.
I think a multi-level talent much like the Defensive quality would be the way to go. Jensaarai studied lightsaber forms so I think it would apply to them as well. But they also wore armor so it probably wasn't as much of a focus.
People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
George Orwell
There is no flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people.
Howard Zinn
He who fights with monsters must take care lest he thereby become a monster.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Chris Brady said:
Week two? Why wasn't it kept for week 3-5? OK, then. However, what about Vigilance, the book claims that it has a use as well.
Week 2 was when it was introduced, and has been kept for all the following Week # Updates. It's towards the far end of the file, since that's where the Force Chapter is located, towards the back end of the book.
Nothing so far on Vigilance, though in another thread I posited that's it's already important in regards to the Uncanny Reactions talent, allowing for "Jedi Reflexes" and the ability to react to danger faster than other characters.
It could also be old data that's not yet been removed like the "opposed check" elements listed for Brawl and Melee because unlike those skills, it's not really getting a lot of attention at the moment.
Contributing Author of the GSA at http://gsa.thegamernation.org/
"If you've never seen an elephant ski, then you've never done acid."
- Eddie Izzard
Donovan Morningfire said:
dreddwulf1 said:
True enough on not getting hit, and it might be nice to keep it simple so that a character can use the sense ability to simply DODGE the darn bolts. Nobody seems to have checked that option yet.
As for lightsaber combat, I hope so. Call me Saber-lover, but I like 'em. Fugitive or otherwise, bringing a proverbial knife to a gun-fight and kicking butt with it is just plain fun!
I imagine we'll start seeing blaster deflection rules as we get closer to Force & Destiny.
As lots of other folks have noted, FFG appears to be going for an Original Trilogy feel for Edge of the Empire, and going by the movies, the only time we saw blaster deflection and reflection in combat, was Return of the Jedi, where Luke was pretty much a Jedi Knight in all but name. Even in the Prequel Trilogy, we really only saw blaster deflection/reflection being done by people that were either at Jedi Knight level of ability or better.
A deliberate design choice was made to not let the PCs be able to become Jedi Knights or other highly-proficient Force-users, and that is going to result in some abilities simply not being available to the PCs until much later in the product line.
Personally, I'm thinking Blaster Reflection would be a talent found under a Jedi specialization(s) rather than a separate Force Power or bend-out of the Sense Power. Could probably add it to the Force specializations for Sith as well. Don't know enough about Jensaarai to determine whether they should or shouldn't be able to reflect blaster fire.
Perhaps mechanics-wise, the Blaster Reflection talent would trigger if the foe rolls a certain number of Threats on their attack roll. It would certainly make that Deflect quality that much sweeter… once the PCs have a way to get access to it (which I'm thinking would also be a talent, to let the Jedi character add the Defensive and Deflect quality to their lightsaber when wielding it).
True enough. That said, there is ALOT more material than just the movies stating that not only were other Jedi Around (I ended up finding a few scattered in different novels), but Jedi weren't the only people able to do it. The Antaran Rangers could do it, to name one, as well as the Mandalorian guards protecting Princess Satine in the CLONE WARS Series and The Jensaarai who were still very much active in that time frame. There are a few others scattered in the other books, but the movies are far from the only source to draw from. Considering that none of it could exist without the LUCASFILM stamp, it's all technically cannon, anyway.
As for learning the skill, even the Jedi had to start somewhere. All the knowledge of the Force didn't just spring up from nothing. The Jedi had to experiment to come up with this stuff, why not allow PC's to do the same?
I get the fact that the Original Trilogy had a certain feel that this game wants to engender. Problem is, Star Wars grew into what it is because the original trilogy wasn't nearly enough to go on for those fans who truly love the setting. The Original trilogy wasn't the end of Star Wars, should it really be the end in the game?
Hi:
I have a question about the Force Sensitive Exile Specialization itself, I was wonderin' if this is the right place to axe it:
What exactly happens to a Character when the player "gets rid of" the Force Sensitive Exile Specialization (to make room for more Specializations)?
Thanks!
L
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