Speaking on whether characters seem unique at first or not … I have actually come to a change of heart, and really am sad to see the change whereby humans no longer gets a free specialization at start …  After having played a few times new I cant help but feel a bit constricted and type-cast by beign restricted within a single specialization …now ofcause I could just purchase an additional, but with the late change to the rules this now costs minimum 20xp which might not be so much in the long run, but does feel like quite a lot for a starting character (+within the first sessions)

- I have thus started to wonder: Why not simply give EVERYONE a flat 20xp discount on the first specialization taken??! This way all starting characters would have a much more unique feel …

Boehm said:

Well, here's a question for you.  Are the players building according to concept and background ideas, or according to what makes them the most efficient/optimized at their perceived role in the group?

If the answer is the second, then yes you're going to see a lot of similar character builds, because they've got the same end-goal of making an optimized build. and there's really only so many ways you can do that.

LethalDose said:

+1. Genius way of expanding the Destiny Point mechanic and encouraging Background development and good roleplaying. As long as it's limited to, say, once per character per session, then I can see this working out wonderfully.

Donovan Morningfire said:

3WhiteFox3 said:

Well, by the time 3.5 rolled around, there were plenty of sourcebooks, both official and unofficial, to provide plenty of options for D&D characters.

In the early days of 3rd Edition, 4th Edition, OCR, RCR, and Saga Edition, when there was just a single core rulebook (kinda like what we have for EotE currently), and thus not a whole lot of "optimization" options available, so a lot of 1st level characters that were optimized for a particular role tended to look pretty similar.

Donovan Morningfire said:

My concern is not about optimization, but rather that the current system encourages specialization too much ….which I find a bit booring, and yes I know you can always think outside the box and do anything u feel like … I just cant help but feel that from a creative point of view I would rather have had that everyone had access to a specialization from teh get go … so a starting pilot would not be a pilot who would be a pilot = pilot ..etc.

Boehm said:

But dont you start with a specialization already?

You get 2(3 if droid) skills from your choosen specialization and thats where you get your talents from. Or are you referring to something else?

Sirkamina said:

I meant an additional specialization … so that instead of only 18 (3 x 6 as far as I remember) variations ….there would be 18 x 17 = Shitload of combinations for starting characters :)

Boehm said:

With each class starting with 90 experience at minimum, and a cross class specialization costing 30 points for the first extra one, thats sort of built in. Experience is your way to customize, but just like putting exp into 8 different skills as opposed to two, the more you spread your character out, the less powerfull they are. Creating a character with 2 specializations out of the gate is possible, they just will find themselves spread a bit thin compared to their freinds, but they will also be more versatile.

The options are there so you can choose. A character with 2 starting specializations has the option of 306 differeent builds. However a character with the freedom to spend their XP however they want is only limited by their own perceptions.

The character I created uses "bounty hunter" "assasin" but in play is actually neither of those. He is a theif and little more. Assasin was just the only way i ccould get skulduggery, stealth, athletics, and perception all in the same build.

Just because the stat sheet says your a bounty hunter does not mean that is what you do.

 got the beta 36 hours ago. given the high costs of stat gains, and the rather high costs of skills, and that everything is costed in increments of 5 Exp. Pts., I find the math to be needlessly inflated… especially with the 10 Exp per session guideline. Divide it all by 5, cut the multiplication down.

Also, with stats being unraisable save by bottom row row traits, starting characters suffer from "buy stats now!!!"  It would be far better to allow highly expensive (say new level x25) raising, with a cap of 5. 

Also, the default cannon fodder of the movies and books, the Imperial Storm Trooper, is directly on par with PC's 1-on-1… human 110 pc and 70 points of atts, (counting rebating 20 for the Att at 1… which isn't explicitly allowed), 4 base skills, and scads of gear…

My initial reaction is that it can't do Han, Lando, Wedge, nor Chewie… all are highly elite in a narrow field (Han's near best in the galaxy amongst pilots, Lando's not too far behind him, and all the characters make stortroopers look like poor shots. WEG has PC's built on 18d6, and NPC's on 12…

Oh, other issues with CGen…

… the character sheet is causing flipping. I dislike flipping the sheet during CGen, and even moreso in play, and combat data is of both sides of the sheet.

… the lack of duplication of certain data means flipping back and forth (wound and stress threshold levels, starting Exp.)

… the lack of starting power level choices

… the low Exp

… the  10 extra Exp cap… that's likely 1 skill level.

… Cr500 starting gear seems a bit low. Luke, after all, being "just this kid" with a Cr4000 speeder, a blaster, and two droids, macrobinocs, a lightsaber, and tools…

… no provision for buying down a stat, and no clear prohibition, either.

And yes, i've used week 8 update.

 I really don't understand why everyone is holding Saga edition up as the best Star Wars RPG ever.  Saga was incredibly overpowered it felt way to close to playing D & D and my group literally had characters with levels below 10 that could use Mind Trick on some of the highest level Sith, including Darth Revan who if I remember correctly is a CL 16.

ashimar2 said:

Probably a case of "I really, really liked Edition X of Game Y, and now they're changing it something entirely different!"  Lord knows how much we've seen that with Dungeons & Dragons, particularly in the transition between 3rd and 4th edition, and doubtless we'll see it again when 5th/Next launches.  Hell, I saw a whole lot of that over on the old Holonet Forums when WotC first came out with their d20-based version of Star Wars (the OCR).  And we're qutie likely to see another such surge once the final version of EotE is released to the masses, particularly as Jedi aren't a main focus character type like they've been throughout all the SWd20 games.

I do agree that Force usage was incredibly ripe for abuse in Saga Edition, particularly given how skill check bonuses vs. level-based defense bonuses worked, making Skill Focus incredibly powerful at lower levels and almost a necessity at higher levels if you wanted a chance of affecting high-end boss opponents.  Thought it seems that the designers for Saga Edition were counting on players being able to police their own actions rather than requiring the rules to do it for them.  Sadly, it's not always as successful as they would have liked.

 Ok, just checking my comprehension

On step 4 careers… is this correct?

1. Pick Career
2. mark all 8 skills on career list as career skills
3. take one rank each in 4 skills from career list
4. pick specialty
5. mark specialty skills as career skills
6. pick 2 of the 4 specialty skills at one rank each
7. go on to experience

Also: Surveilance - Uncaught entry in Explorer: Scout - What replaces it? (Based upon the text on p. 3 of Wk8 update, I suspect awarenes.)

 One other niggle:  the character sheet order for attributes isn't the same as the order in the book. 

aramis said:

You'd be correct on Step 4, with the minor caveat that you can choose to "double up" on a skill if it's listed on both your Career and Specialization.  For instance, a Hired Gun could take 1 rank in Melee as per his Career, and then a 2nd rank in Melee as per the Marauder Specialization.  Also, a Twi'lek that took a free rank in Charm as their species bonus could take a 2nd rank as per the Colonist's list of career skills, but not a third from the Politico specialization, even though Charm is a bonus career skill.  I've seen a few folks (not many, but a few) question if this was legal, especially given the XP savings involved (getting two ranks in a skill for what amounts to 10 XP instead of 15 XP).

For the Scout, the replacement skill would be Medicine, as FFG_Sam pretty much noted that the entry for Survivalist is erroneous, given they never had Surveillance as a bonus career skill in the first place.