SergeantVau said:

I'm inclined to think that the numerical value is how many points of Advantage need to be spent to activate that quality, as given in the description citing "unless it says otherwise, costs two Advantage to activate this quality," but the only two weapons that have the Knockdown quality (bowcasters and bolas/nets) both list "Knockdown 3," so they're not much help.

I agree, this could use some clarification.

Donovan Morningfire said:

+1 to the explanation and agreement on clarification.

Though, Unarmed Attacks have the Knockdown quality, and I don't think it has anything after it? Just Knockdown? I can't check my book just this second though.

Inksplat said:

Just checked the description on page 137, and it just says unarmed attacks have the Knockdown quality, with no number given.

Seems kinda odd that a weapon (bolas and nets) that are largely intended to take someone to the ground have a harder time doing so than just a regular punch.

Donovan Morningfire said:

Well, there's the Grappling Sidebar that says Unarmed is meant to also represent grappling and wrestling as well. That, and the bowcaster + bola are ranged. Aaaand the bola has the awesome ability to completely lock someone down. So, one less advantage cost isn't too bad a tradeoff for having to get in close, i think.

Especially since its more useful to knockdown a melee threat than a ranged one anyway. Knocking down a melee opponent down means he can't advance on you. Knocking a ranged opponent down..well, he can still shoot at you just fine.

Upgrades and Modifications - One thing that always comes up is - How long does it take to install an attachment (or mod), what is the base difficulty for installing an attachment, and is the listed cost for someone else to install it or for the player to install it themselves?

I would suggest that the install time is a set amount per hard point (modified by silhouette for starships), base difficulty is again based on hard points required, and that the cost is for buying a new component with the player installing it, double the cost to get a skilled mechanic to install it and reduce the cost based on used parts?

What do you think?

I would recomend the install time for modifications be 'one downtime'.

Honestly, the time reqired to modify equipment has never been an issue for me, unless there's some plot reason why the characters are trying to do it on the fly (in which case it becomes based on checks).  Otherwise they just do it between missions/adventures.  As for cost, I tend to assume the cost of installation is included in the price of the item.

 On page 104 under "Lifting and Carrying Excessive Encumbrance" it states:

"If a character needs to lift an object greater than his encumbrance threshold, such as an ally who has fallen off a gantry or ledge, he must make a Brawn test.  The difficulty is Simple if the object's Encumbrance value is less than or equal to the character's encumbrance threshold."

I feel this shouldn't have this second sentence as it seems to be unnecessary since it's qualifier of the object having an Encumbrance less than his threshold would mean that no test is necessary anyway.

Also, it should probably say "…needs to lift an object with an Encumbrance value greater than…".  

Also the sentence following this section should probably have "…, up to a maximum of, difficulty of Daunting." changed to "…, up to a maximum difficulty of Daunting."

Quicksilver said:

Gm caveat is all well and good, I am pretty adept at hand waving downtime but sometimes my players are travelling from a to b or staying at b for a few hours/days and would like to work on things while waiting and I would like some rough guidelines on when to say, "Yes you can install the new hyperdrive in a day whilst in dock" or "no it will take more than a few hours in hyperspace to sort out that attachment mod".  Having rough guidelines not only helps me be consistent but it helps me to know when a player wants to rush an install, which is always good to play out.

For me the cost, has to either be for installing it yourself (and then charge extra for having an expert do it) or for getting someone else to install it, and if its the later my players (which are invariably short of cash) will want to know how much a spare part would cost that they could install themselves.  Again rough guidelines would help with this. 

Perhaps a sidebar saying that the cost for items includes installation, however a PC could half this cost by installing it themselves and further reduce this by using spare parts, the price cannot be reduced to less than 25% of base cost?

The hard part with installation times and costs is how variable they are depending on both the modification and the item being modified. To take the classic example of Starship Modification; Corrillian ships were famous for being quick and easy to modify, as they had plenty of spare room, slack in the wires, slide-off panels and robust system that could handle slap-shod upgrading. Kuati ships, in comparison, were finely tuned they were notoriously difficult to upgrade with non-standard parts given their virtually inaccessible components (at least without a full dockyard to disassemble the thing) tight fit parts and the Kuati legal team shutting down knock off producers. (note: the firespray was designed to be maintained at less advanced facilities then typical Kuati designs) This doesn't even cover what the person is trying to install, just what they're installing it on.

In general though, I think calling installation half the cost is overly generous. I wouldn't give more than a 10%-25% discount depending on the complexity of the job. Any more than that and I think you'd have to really consider how much reward your giving your players, as it's going to go much farther then 'normal'.

Spare parts are great for repairs, but they're useless for upgrading as the whole idea is to add new different parts, not spares of the old ones. Now if they found, say 50% of the parts needed for an upgrade, then that's ~50% off the cost, but it only helps if they're going for that upgrade. Otherwise we're just talking standard sized nuts and washers, which are negligible.

Time is even more variable. Applying a Blastech scope upgrade kit to your Blastech Rifle might be as simple as screwing it on and sighting it, taking a total of half an hour to do slowly and "right". Adding an accelerated hyperdrive motivator could mean a week in the mechanics bay has you completely disassemble the back half of your ship. Whatever mathematical guideline you use, I'd approximate it with Cost x Size, with good tools dropping to 75% time, and poor (or no) tools doubling or tripling the time.

Question on disruptors:  The description of the weapon states that you can vaporize a target by spending 5 advantages.  Cool. But does this count as a "weapon quality"?  It is not listed in the "Special" section of the table, only mentioned in the description of disruptor weapons.

The purpose of this question is to determine if a triumph may be spent to activate the disruptors ability to vaporize a target.  Given how difficult it is to generate 5 advantages, the triumph seems like a much easier way of activating this very devastating result.

Sorry if this was asked and answered elsewhere, I couldn't find it.

-WJL

I have been looking at encumbrance for ships. From what I gather this sort of encumbrance is the same as for PCs. Looking at the Ghtroc 720 this mean that is can carry 7 (full) bacta tanks and a dejarik table and its stuffed, sounds sort of good (bacta tanks are big and heavy), at least that haul can pay off and give profit… although if its worth the risk of raiding an imperial medical facility is another matter

On the other hand the 720 can only carry 50 disguise kits OR 11 heavy repeating blasters OR 20 bowcasters, which I find unreasonable for a ship that big… I understand that the encumbrance unit it to simplify weight and cargo space. I can also remember long threads of discussing metric tons vs volume for the older incarnations of the star wars rpg. I do not particularly want to start such a thread, but this encumbrance stuff did make me curious and slightly confused.

I realise that there might be stuff I have overlooked and not understood when it comes to encumbrance, particular in relation to starships. The sidebar on page 171 does suggest that at least capital ships can carry a lot more than listed, although not how much more - but since my players won't ever get their own capital ship or "super"freighter it won't matter what that particular upper limit is. But what is the limit for the Ghtroc 720? Is it 100 encumbrance, plus x for filling passenger quarters if need be… are bowcasters so big and bulky that you cannot fill a Ghtorc with more than 20 of them, or even less in a YT-1300?

On this note I also wondered about the smuggling compartments. Do they add encumbrance, or do they "steal" encumbrance away from the total capacity and hide it so to speak. Wouldn't be a very clever solution, since most custom patrols would have specs and knowledge about capacities… and a YT-1300 with substantially less cargo capacity than it should have, will cause suspicion - beyond the normal: "you look like a scoundrel, you talk like a scoundrel and you smell like a scoundrel. Open your cargo hold!"

LethalDose said:

I'd say it's separate, and that you couldn't spend a Triumph to get an insta-death.  A critical hit from these one of these things is nasty enough, since the minimum result is "limb lost" (aka Maimed on the Critical Hit chart on page142) unless the rolled effect is nastier, which given the ranks in Vicious these things have is quite likely.  Just the pistol can rival a lightsaber, having the same base damage, an easy ability to score a critical hit (which as noted is going to automatically outdo what a lightsaber can achieve most of the time), and though the pistol doesn't get to bypass Soak the way a lightsaber can, the pistol can be used from a mild distance and isn't quite as hard to come by.  The rifle takes that up a notch, having a higher base damage, far better range, and an even better chance of scoring a really nasty critical hit.

After seeing a disruptor pistol in action last night during the "veteran character combat test run" my and a few friends ran last night, I'd say disruptor weapons are deadly enough.  Leave the auto-death instances to needing a lot of Advantages.  Which, if you've got a couple boost dice and a couple proficiency dice is not quite as unlikely as you might think.

 Ok, we have built our first characters and found that the starting credits of 500 to be WAY too low.  My Wookie player can't even have a Bowcaster and the cost of cybernetic implants is so high that my Droid Player can't even hope to get any right now, even if he maxes out his Obligation.  Am I missing somthing?  Is there a place for characters to start with equipment based on their starting career?

 nope your all expected to either be unable to do your job or take extra obligation, just be careful ites really easy to break 100 group total obligation at character creation and if you do no PC can spend XP till you lower it, on the upside your a galaxy renown super criminal somehow.

some people love that pc's start super poor, they cite things like firefly and cowboy bebop, yes the stars of those shows are allways poor but they also almost always have the tools they need to do there job, they have there guns, tool kits, med packs, even grenades. they actually get hired because they are desperate for money but have the tools and skills nessesary to succed at dangerous missions.

Librarian said:

this. If it stays the way it is, this is right up top on the list of houserules for my group.

Starting cash needs to be more than the cost of a gorram blaster pistol.