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AluminiumWolf said:
You may find as you get older that the sprawling, near endless campaigns that made that possible in your younger days are no longer possible as people gain responsibilities and getting everyone to turn up becomes harder. As such, I think many people are going to do better just skipping to the bit they want to play.
Think of it as starting with Episode IV. If the campaign goes really well, maybe you can go back and run Episodes I - III later. :-)
(Incidentally, I learned the term In Medias Res from the first edition Star Wars Roleplaying game. It entertains me how much my approach to roleplaying reflects the GMs advice section in the book. I wonder if I got it from there, or if it was just serendipity.)
I think you have a valid point here. In liturature they call the classic farmboy to (galactic) hero a billingsroman or comming-of-age story. Not all stories are of this variety, though the low skill limits (2 ranks max) and rapid xp progression (10-15 per session) imply that as the default EotE mode. Personally I'd like to see options for seasoned characters and slower progression laid out and discussed in the GMs chapter.
I continue to be happy with the lack of Jedi.
Being that this a beta and not the final product, we may yet see some options for starting and running games differently. As it is, it is not like these options can not be implemented now, such as handing out more xp to start with more seasoned characters or dispensing less xp during adventures to slow down advancement. These things are pretty straight-forward.
As to starting with Jedi, I can see the point that some want it. While many fans of Star Wars cut their teeth on the original trilogy, the fandom has increased to include those that were introduced through other ways such as the new trilogy, books, comics, etc. where Jedi were more prominent. But the choice was made to start the game centered on the events of the original trilogy, like it or not. Jedi were few and far between as to be all but non-existent. The little rules included work well to emulate this. I'm sure we will see a little more in the Rebellion book and then, of course, much more in the third Force and Destiny book.
The original trilogy is the most iconic of the Star Wars universe, so I can understand why they focused on it. They could have focused on other eras,such as the Old Republic or Legacy (comic) where Force use is more prevalent, but those, while popular, are not as iconic as the original trilogy. Do we have to wait for more Force? Yes. Personally I don't mind as I look forward to the progression. The basics of the Force look good so far and I look forward to seeing others aspects like healing, Force lightning or the seven forms implemented. You can choose to be all doom and gloom (we all know pessimists are never disappointed, right?) or you can give constructive input now so that when the rest of the game comes out it is improved upon.
People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
George Orwell
There is no flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people.
Howard Zinn
He who fights with monsters must take care lest he thereby become a monster.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Well spoken, Mouthymerc.
Thus do I undo all Gordian Knots!
Doc, the Weasel said:
Once they decided to split up the games – and we won't know if this is a good move until we at least see game #2 – it was clear they would force some players to wait to play their favorite hero type. They chose to lead with the game that would allow for the greatest variety, and I think that was a good choice.
If the three game lines are to represent a progression of capabilities, then wouldn't the middle of the set present the greatest variety? It seems like the place where you could have both experienced versions of whatever fits into EotE, fleshed out heroes of the Rebellion, and even struggling/immature versions of what might come in F&D (like Jedi). I would have preferred if they had started in the middle and then fleshed out the two extremes thus ensuring the widest array of application right from the start.
mouthymerc said:
I don't think I can agree that the original trilogy is the most 'iconic' - it differs significantly in that ALL other periods of Star Wars are heavily Jedi-centric. The original trilogy is an exception, not the rule. Just because it came first doesn't mean it has more weight than everything that came after it, especially since it's more than a little out of touch with it's own prequels. To many Star Wars fans of today, Episodes I-III and the Clone Wars are the 'iconic' Star Wars. And the stars of iconic Star Wars are Jedi. But we instead get another helping of, "What's this guy's story?" with a focus on some meaningless schlub that we are supposed to be happy with as a PC.
HappyDaze said:
I am actually remarkably unmilitant in Star Wars about the 'What's This Guy's Story? I Don't Care' thing, on the grounds that I'm perfectly happy running cargo or flying an X-Wing against the Empire and leaving the direct galaxy saving to other people. I mean, I'd rather be Bo and Luke Duke than random redneck third from the left in the background at the Boar's Nest, but still.
...every single one of them is a Space Marine, a guy who single handedly can take on a modern infantry division with ease... -Alan Merrett, Head of IP, Games Workshop
HappyDaze said:
I don't think I can agree that the original trilogy is the most 'iconic' - it differs significantly in that ALL other periods of Star Wars are heavily Jedi-centric. The original trilogy is an exception, not the rule. Just because it came first doesn't mean it has more weight than everything that came after it, especially since it's more than a little out of touch with it's own prequels. To many Star Wars fans of today, Episodes I-III and the Clone Wars are the 'iconic' Star Wars. And the stars of iconic Star Wars are Jedi. But we instead get another helping of, "What's this guy's story?" with a focus on some meaningless schlub that we are supposed to be happy with as a PC.
I stated that the fandom has shifted in the paragraph prior to the one that you quoted. Again, this is a beta. Given the amount of comments, we may see the addition of more information on the Force and Jedi if they feel it is warranted. Personally I hope not, but I'm easy either way.
People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
George Orwell
There is no flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people.
Howard Zinn
He who fights with monsters must take care lest he thereby become a monster.
Friedrich Nietzsche
AluminiumWolf, I often find your extensive use of pasted images annoying, but in this case, thank you.
HappyDaze said:
If the three game lines are to represent a progression of capabilities, then wouldn't the middle of the set present the greatest variety? It seems like the place where you could have both experienced versions of whatever fits into EotE, fleshed out heroes of the Rebellion, and even struggling/immature versions of what might come in F&D (like Jedi). I would have preferred if they had started in the middle and then fleshed out the two extremes thus ensuring the widest array of application right from the start.
First, that's a big if that I don't think is self evident. I look at the three releases and see the 3 OT movies.
The other thing is that you are mistaking skill/power for variety. Playing Rebellion-centered games means playing soldiers of some sort fighting a war. That's a lot more narrowly focused game that EotE.
Previous games: Buried, but not Forgotten and Underworld Rising.
Check out both podcasts at Reckless Dice.
Doc, the Weasel said:
HappyDaze said:
If the three game lines are to represent a progression of capabilities, then wouldn't the middle of the set present the greatest variety? It seems like the place where you could have both experienced versions of whatever fits into EotE, fleshed out heroes of the Rebellion, and even struggling/immature versions of what might come in F&D (like Jedi). I would have preferred if they had started in the middle and then fleshed out the two extremes thus ensuring the widest array of application right from the start.
First, that's a big if that I don't think is self evident. I look at the three releases and see the 3 OT movies.
The other thing is that you are mistaking skill/power for variety. Playing Rebellion-centered games means playing soldiers of some sort fighting a war. That's a lot more narrowly focused game that EotE.
Nonsense. Everything you can do with Edge could be done as Rebel agents. The vast majority of the Rebel Alliance is made of irregulars, so saying 'soldiers of some sort' is misleading. It's the equivalent of saying that everyone in Edge is criminal scum of some sort, which is also misleading.
HappyDaze said:
Nonsense. Everything you can do with Edge could be done as Rebel agents. The vast majority of the Rebel Alliance is made of irregulars, so saying 'soldiers of some sort' is misleading. It's the equivalent of saying that everyone in Edge is criminal scum of some sort, which is also misleading.
I think the main difference between the games will be a matter of focus. EotE the PCs' focus is generally on surviving and their own prosperity, typically with little more to rely on than themselves. Whether they're criminal scum or noble rogues will vary from group to group, or even from player to player in the same group.
For Rebels, the PCs' focus is going to be more on overthrowing the Empire, and will tend to have more support from the Rebel Alliance (even if it's just in the form of intel and basic supplies), but again how the PCs go about accomplishing that goal can vary from noble freedom fighters to borderline terrorists.
Contributing Author of the GSA at http://gsa.thegamernation.org/
"If you've never seen an elephant ski, then you've never done acid."
- Eddie Izzard
Donovan Morningfire said:
A focus on surviving with little more to rely on than themselves…
With that line of thinking, how can you argue that EotE isn't perfectly suited for the Jedi survivors of the period? Kenobi was the movie example, but the expanded universe has shown that there were far more - most with Jedi training but typically less than Kenobi's Jedi Master level - that were hiding out on the edge of the galaxy.
HappyDaze said:
A focus on surviving with little more to rely on than themselves…
With that line of thinking, how can you argue that EotE isn't perfectly suited for the Jedi survivors of the period? Kenobi was the movie example, but the expanded universe has shown that there were far more - most with Jedi training but typically less than Kenobi's Jedi Master level - that were hiding out on the edge of the galaxy.
Easy. Edge of the Empire is about normal people trying to make it through the day. The Jedi aren't normal people, and have far more resources to call upon (namely the Force) than the average smuggler or mercenary. Also, if there's one thing a PC Jedi won't do, it's simply lay low and avoid Imperial notice. After all, they've got these incredible powers, and what's the point of having those powers if you aren't going to use them to serve something greater than yourself? Think Firefly rather than Andromeda
If anything, most Jedi PCs seem to go out of their way to attract Imperial attention, consequences be damned, particularly if it means doing the right thing. The ones that focus on purely selfish motivations and use their powers tend to wind up on the fast track to the Dark Side.
That's been my experience at least.
Contributing Author of the GSA at http://gsa.thegamernation.org/
"If you've never seen an elephant ski, then you've never done acid."
- Eddie Izzard
Donovan Morningfire said:
HappyDaze said:
A focus on surviving with little more to rely on than themselves…
With that line of thinking, how can you argue that EotE isn't perfectly suited for the Jedi survivors of the period? Kenobi was the movie example, but the expanded universe has shown that there were far more - most with Jedi training but typically less than Kenobi's Jedi Master level - that were hiding out on the edge of the galaxy.
Easy. Edge of the Empire is about normal people trying to make it through the day. The Jedi aren't normal people, and have far more resources to call upon (namely the Force) than the average smuggler or mercenary. Also, if there's one thing a PC Jedi won't do, it's simply lay low and avoid Imperial notice. After all, they've got these incredible powers, and what's the point of having those powers if you aren't going to use them to serve something greater than yourself? Think Firefly rather than Andromeda
If anything, most Jedi PCs seem to go out of their way to attract Imperial attention, consequences be damned, particularly if it means doing the right thing. The ones that focus on purely selfish motivations and use their powers tend to wind up on the fast track to the Dark Side.
That's been my experience at least.
Yeah, except you are forgetting about those guys that the Emperor gave permission to go around and kill any Force users that can't be corrupted. And even if you defeat them, you still have that guy with the breathing and anger problems riding around the galaxy.
You are correct in thinking Firefly, but it also applies to Jedi as well.
Unless you enjoy having the shortest campaign in yet.
Sarone said:
You are correct in thinking Firefly, but it also applies to Jedi as well.
Again, this all comes down to how one defines the term "Jedi."
But that's an old debate, and there's really not much to be gained by re-hashing it yet again for the uptenth time.
Contributing Author of the GSA at http://gsa.thegamernation.org/
"If you've never seen an elephant ski, then you've never done acid."
- Eddie Izzard
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