I've been thinking a bit about how to handle Jedi in the game and how, in other games, they are 'more powerful' than other characters. 

The fact is they Aren't more powerful.  What makes it seem that way is that Most Jedi have had their entire lives devoted to training.  A character playing a full fledged Jedi is going to be a higher 'level' than other characters.  So of course they are more powerful.

A Jedi, for the most part, is trained since they are super young.   So a player that makes a brand new character will be the equivalent of a padawan.  They will also be relatively young - and not have a lot of skills.  This is the case for a character starting out Pure Jedi.  Of course, this example is also assuming a Jedi Order still being in existence.  Which, for the time period this game is set in, is not going to be likely. 

Now, playing a full fledged Jedi is what a lot of people want to play.  They want to have the lightsaber swinging action, force powers and all that.  But, and this is only in my experience, most people don't realize what it is to play a Jedi.  This is a religious order, that forces you to follow a certain, very narrow doctrine.  They don't have a lot of gear.  A utility belt and lightsaber is all most get.  Also, you were beholden to the Jedi Council.  You know what that means in Game terms?  You have a Set Obligation:  Jedi Order.   I would expect this to be very high.   To the point that a Jedi in the Party is going to get the rest of the characters into a lot of trouble. 

Now, at the height of the Jedi order, this obligation would be the Jedi Council giving missions, and other tasks.  In the time period that this game is set in, the Obligation is most likely going to be geared to staying alive, and making sure you aren't found out, and secondly, trying to rebuild the Jedi Order.

In either case, I think, that a great way to 'balance' the Jedi to other classes, is to acknowledge that the Jedi we see in the movies, and Clone Wars animated series are characters that have a lot of experience under their belt.   At character creation, a Jedi character would be a padawan, and while having access to force powers, would not have the skill or power levels that a high 'level' character would.  If Obligation is fixed, and a higher rating, this will be balanced by having to have that character make choices.  Do you follow the Jedi Code and reveal yourself to save someone, or do you take the huge penalties for ignoring your obligation and stay hidden? 

However, this is all just my opinion, and speculation on my part.   But I truly think that this game will find a way to make Jedi 'balanced' with other characters, if only by making them beholden to their obligation.  Which is a fair trade.

apollyonbob said:

As far as "balance" goes, no, it isn't really balanced. Or rather, it is (being that it effectively costs about 1 million credits with its rarity of 10 and base price of 10,000), so its power/cost ratio is comparable to anything else in this system. What is meaningful though, is that lightsabers are true to the setting. This was a big contention in saga edition where a lightsaber was a glorified glowstick. At least now a lightsaber properly does not apply its wielders strength, and can pretty much slice through anything.

As far as popularity with having no base jedi, I'm quite happy about it. It is treating the setting appropriately. The Force Sensitive Exile specialty is very good at depicting the sort of passive bonuses one has from being aware of the force. The powers are a bit broken right now, but also do an excellent job of showing the effectiveness of the force.

I must say, the worst thing about Star Wars Galaxies to me is when they started making Jedi something "easy" to attain (and by that, I mean when they added any system that gave an indication to players how to do it, like the holocrons). Without the mystery of "how did you get that," it became a far less impressive thing.

doctorbadwolf said:

It's a bit silly you're demanding a design decision because you think you're handcuffed, but in the same breath you say you're going to houserule it into what you want.

Every design decision is going to produce people who believe their way is best.  That's great.  Houserule it.  The Star Wars police are not in your house.  And if you think they are in your house you should call the real police because you're probably about to be stabbed.

But you immediately lose me when you demand the design team do this one thing, and this one thing only.

Get over yourself.  It's a game.

apollyonbob said:

In true, canon, anything after the purge, and after the movies is pretty short of jedi.  I would imagine there are going to be a rash of untrained force users (even ones of jedi status), but  real jedis… Daddy George never supported anything that is EU and on a number of  interviews has stated that he intended "the force" to die off.

KommissarK said:

I entirely agree, though I generally find the normal people to be the most interesting people in Star Wars anyway - I find the totally black/white morality of the Jedi-Sith conflict boring as hell.

One correction though… the cost of a lightsaber is actually 10 times what you said. Since it's base cost is 10,000 credits, and the rarity of 10 (or even 8 on Coruscant) means a black market cost multiplier of 1000%, the cost of a lightsaber is actually 10,000,000 credits (or enough to buy about 77 YT-2400 light freighters).

MILLANDSON said:

FYIGM?

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=FYIGM

MILLANDSON said:

1000% is 10x not 100x the cost. So, if the math is Rarity * Base Cost * BM, then the cost of 1 Million Credits is correct.

apollyonbob said:

As others have noted, FFG is using the Rebellion Era for their setting. This is probably due to a combination of licensing and copyright. WEG did all the later material in their system (Episode IV to about 25 years after the Battle of Yavin). WotC did all the Prequels with their D20 Star Wars stuff (since they couldn't do the stuff that WEG had done), so… that leaves the current section that isn't covered by either game system or go way outside the documented era.

Kallabecca said:

It'd actually be 100,000 credits. You only apply the modifier if it's a black market weapon, which a lightsaber always is, so it'd be 1000% of the 10,000 base cost, which would be 100,000 credits. Still, some starships are cheaper than that…

AluminiumWolf said:

Not really - it just so happens that my preference lines up with the Rebellion Era, where there are basically no Jedi other than Obi Wan and Yoda around (going by the movies). We do not need an entire set of rules for Jedi for 2 NPCs, when they can just be dealt with as individuals.

If you want Jedi rules, you'll have to wait for them - not that you're going to buy any of the rules anyway, when you can just complain about no Jedi and an RPG not being a computer game (I'd suggest the Jedi Knight series - I think that's exactly the sort of TTRPG you are looking for).

MILLANDSON said:

Like I say though, with 40k I waited three years for rules for Space Marines, and when they turned up they were rubbish because the system wasn't designed with that kind of high end combat in mind. Same with Temple Assassins.

You know what they say - fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me, and all that.

Fitting a setting to a mechanic system is a bit different than fitting a mechanic system to a setting.

"When did the future switch from being a promise to a threat?" - Chuck Palahniuk (author of Fight Club)

MILLANDSON said:

Personally, I won't be going by anything but the movies, (no other jedi), but I will be using the force powers for The Witches, and others.  Love me some baddies that don't work within the sith/jedi concepts, but still fling around some "magic". 

$hamrock said:

While I'm cool with expanding upon what the movies give (as in there are some folks out there with limited Jedi training, but not full-bore Jedi Knights), this concept of non-Jedi/Sith NPCs can also be extended to the PCs, and in fact has been with the Force-Sensitive Exile, aka "self-taught Force-user," who is not a part of any particular Force-using tradition.

cetiken said:

Oh lord not the gamist/narrative/simulation spectrum. That's one of the most limiting and damaging concepts to come along into the RPG world in a long time. Namely the idea that those three concepts are mutually exclusive.

Anyway, should a mid-level bounty hunter and a mid-level Jedi be of equal power? Sure. Or rather, that is to say, they should be doing *totally* different stuff. 

Look at the WEG version of the game, which actually usually felt pretty balanced to me. Give a Jedi and a BH both 100 character points to spend and they're on the same power level, but they'll do drastically different things. The jedi is dumping most of his CPs into his force skills and lightsaber, making him good at sabering people and decent to good at the jedi tricks. He's going to have almost no skill doing anything else. This makes perfect in-game and narrative sense: these guys are monastic warriors trained from a young age to follow their studies, and they don't put the emphasis on other skills and knowledges. Meanwhile, the BH has probably maxed out brawling, blasters, underworld contacts, is decent at piloting his ship, probably has stealth and inquiry out the rear, and a large smattering of other skills. 

In other words, when a fight breaks out, the Jedi is going to kick all kinds of ass. But outside of that (and judging by the lethality of the lightsaber, *non* lethal combat is going to be a problem for the Jedi as well), he's going to be marginal at best. Meanwhile, the Bounty Hunter is going to basically be a swiss army knife of different stuff. 

Should Jedi be masters of close quarters combat? Sure I have no problem with that. Should they automatically be better than everyone else because they're jedi? Hell no- and canon backs me up. It only takes a dozen troops with blasters to kill 99% of the Jedi out there- the ones who survive are exceptional (Kenobi & Yoda mainly) or just lucky enough not to be around troops. After all, the entire Jedi Academy was sacked by one dark jedi (Anakin wasn't sith yet I'd argue) and a buttload of stormtroopers.