So, if what I'm reading is correct, Edge of the Empire has the Force, and it has the concept of a Force User, but there's basically no concept of a Jedi for character creation, is that right? (Force user and Jedi being not synonymous in the slightest in the Star Wars universe.)

I mean, is Fantasy Flight really going to make a Star Wars RPG that launches with no Jedi in it? That doesn't strike anyone else as … well … maybe not the best choice?

I mean, I know, the 2nd(!) expansion will have Jedi. But … It seems uh that such a thing kind of depends upon the core and 1st expansion selling well enough to justify it right? And people actually wanting to buy it after they hear about it launching without Jedi?

Maybe I'm just confused and Jedi are totally represented. It doesn't seem like it, but there's really nothing about it specifically on the web page.

Although I guess it wouldn't be the first RPG that launched without Jedi at character creation I guess. What was that other Star Wars RPG that was like "Oh Jedi are super powerful and so should be rare." I think it was really successful wasn't it? Really captured the feel of-

Oh.

Ohhhhhh.

Yeah I think that's gonna be hard to sell to my gaming group. For what it's worth, the system sounds really neat mechanically.

Lacking Jedi is both an setting approprate and thematiclly correct. I applaud FFG for their bold decision. Many people want many diffrent things from a Star Wars RPG. Realistically it's impossible to please all of them. I think FFG picked three excellent styles of play to start the initial lines off with. EotE will feature fringers like smugglers bounty hunters and their ilk. Next year we will see a game about playing a hero of the rebellion. Finally a year after that we can all wield glowsicks and be angsty about the lure of the dark side.   Further game lines have not been announced, but a reasonable person might expect an Imperial book line to follow. 

Its not as if this is the first Star Wars RPG. If anyone absolutely needs their lightsabers to play Star Wars you can enjoy Saga or WEG's systems and check in in a couple of years. 

In the meantime, please curtail the chicken little routine and contribute to the conversation about what the game is.  

While the option to play "fresh from the Temple with lightsaber in hand Jedi" (like you could in all the d20 versions of Star Wars) doesn't exist in EotE, that's not to say it's impossible to play a "Jedi."  You're just going to have to accept that since this game is set in the Rebellion Era, Jedi as they are classically perceived simply don't exist in any great numbers.

There is a full chapter on The Force, including a Force-user specialization and access to Force Powers that mirror what we generally see in the movies.  There are stats for a lightsaber (and they're by far the most powerful version of the weapon to date), so you can have you're lightsaber-swinging Force-user… it just won't be right out the gate.  Again, perfectly fitting for the theme and setting of Edge of the Empire.  And after seeing repeatedly, as both player and GM, how dominating a Jedi could be both in terms of game mechanics and campaign story-arc, I'm actually kind of glad to see that they're not being pushed to the forefront in this version.  Force-users in this game are following a similar development path to Luke Skywalker prior to his crash-course training session in ESB under the tutelage of a Jedi Grand Master (who'd spent centuries training would-be Jedi).  The vast majority of players aren't going to have that option, and instead will have to "learn as they go."  It's very much like the WEG version of d6 Star Wars, which was quite popular and to this day has a devoted fan-base that continues to play the game, where brandishing a lightsaber simply got you into a lot of trouble and it could take a while for your would-be Jedi to become a bad-ass… although once they reached that point (about 5D in their Force skills; high enough to reliably activate most of their powers as well as maintain Lightsaber Combat in spite of the multi-action dice penalty) they truly were a force to be reckoned with.

As for Star Wars Galaxies, it actually was quite popular, at least until the New Combat Upgrade which pretty much decimated the pre-existing subscriber base, with the game only being put to rest in December 2011 to make way for the "new-hawtness" of Star Wars: The Old Republic, which in spite of having Jedi and Sith hasn't toppled WoW as the dominant MMO, so an awesome game does not having Jedi automatically make.  And once Galaxies had it so that anyone could start as Jedi, it got to the point you couldn't swing a dead womp rat without hitting a Jedi, which was ridiculous for a game that was set in an era when Jedi are supposed to be rare and uncommon.  So the fact that there was enough money being made to keep the game going until the end of last year, when it'd been out for close to a decade… yeah, that's a sign of a game that completely failed right out the gate *rolls eyes*

 Gotta agree with all DM's points above, and, for the record, re-state that Star Wars Galaxies was awesome until they started letting everybody be Jedi.

God, I miss that game… 

I. J. Thompson said:

+1.

Also, the first time I looked at the classes and specs, my first comment was, "So they're doing Galaxies as a pen and paper RPG? SWEETS!!"

You can't look at those pages and not see the resemblance, it's uncanny!

-EF

As stated, EotE takes place during the Rebellion-era. Some EU silliness not withstanding, some gaming groups will just have to accept there are no more Jedi unless you names are:
Yoda
Obi-Wan Kenobi
Luke Skywalker is not proclaimed a Jedi until the very very end.

Want to be technical about arguing Force-users are not Jedi? That's cool. You should remember that Sith are not Jedi either. Of them, you can't be a Sith unless your name is:
Darth Vader
Emperor Palpatine

Being a Jedi is more than just owning a lightsaber. Its a religion. A way of thinking. Because of the Jedi Purge at the hands of Lord Vader, there are 2 Jedi left. That's it. Who is going to be training more? So it makes sense there aren't any others.

"…and now the Jedi are all but extinct" - Obi-Wan Kenobi
"When I am gone, last of the Jedi will you be" - Yoda

Now, what about the EU? Ok, what about it? There's a handful of former Jedi and padawans hiding in deep holes and if they start whipping out glowy blades of death and throwing rocks around with their minds, its a sure way to get heavy Imperial notice (the Dark Lord of the Sith kind). They didn't survive 18+ years easily. Most of them even hid or threw away their lightsabers altogether. These people aren't stupid…most PCs are and can't wait to play with their toys.

So here's the deal. Let your players write up all the Jedi they want. The only person stopping them is the GM, since there are more than enough rules in the game to make one. Let them know that once its discovered they are Force-users with laser-swords, all hell is going to break loose, and then proceed to chase them around the galaxy with Darth Vader until he kills each one horribly.

Won't that be fun?

Kaiohx said:

I know what you wrote was a little satirical, but most of my players would absolutely LOVE getting chased around and killed by Darth Vader. For them it would be glorious.

So…I think maybe I will stat up some "Jedi" options for them to play :)

apollyonbob said:

Sorry man, but they didn't un-include Jedi in Galaxies because they're "super powerful," but because the game was set in an era were there are no* Jedi.

Same as this game. 

*okay, very few.

Donovan Morningfire said:

Well that's good to know. If the lightsaber is incredibly powerful though, is it actually balanced? I mean, the website basically doesn't even mention the possibility of a Force user until the last of those books. So is cross-play something that the game is actually designed for?

To give an example, White Wolf's system could also be considered "integrated" and a Mage, and Werewolf could mechnically be in the same group. However, the Mage would dominate because while it's mechanically possible the games are radically different in terms of scope of power.

If they're going to save Jedi for the end, will a mid-level Jedi and a mid-level bounty hunter have about the same power level?

To clarify - I realize that from the descriptions the game might not really have set levels per se. But on the assumption of say, a 52 session campaign, where everyone starts brand new characters at 0 xp, the 25 session mark would be what I'm thinking of when I say "mid level"

Incidentally, I got the impression that the Third Book (Force of Destiny?) will be about playing the last of the Jedi running around the Empire, so presumably they are not ideologically opposed to people playing Jedi in this period.

It is also probably worth realising that people are not going to shut up about Jedi until they can play one, so it might behove us to make that possible in some form.

Beta rules for Jedi. You know it makes sense.

apollyonbob said:

No idea, though I'd guess so. I'm sure we'll find out when the 2nd game comes out though.

apollyonbob said:

Do you think a Jedi should be about as powerful as a smuggler?  

Personally I wouldn't think so. 

If FFG was making a Gamist style RPG I'd think so. However in a Naritive style of play it seems less necessary to me. 

cetiken said:

Random Bob the Smuggler? Definitely not. Jedi should (eventually) be much more powerful than an average human being. But then again, so should Han Solo. I don't understand why everyone's obsessed with the idea that Jedi PCs should be larger-than-life heroes and other PCs should just be normal random people. That is not what the Star Wars setting is all about. The protagonists of the story are exceptional beings, jedi or no jedi.

(And on that note, I also don't think PC Jedi should be about as powerful as random Bob the Jedi who's gunned down in an arena on Geonosis or shot in the back by a couple of clone troopers.)

cetiken said:

Yes, I completely understand why Fantasy Flight is doing what they're doing in terms of setting the game in the Rebellion Era. But in making it the most Jedi-restricted era aren't they making it far more difficult to balance for people who want to play the game in a less Jedi-restricted era? Especially since the less Jedi-restricted eras are every other era. The Old Republic, New Republic, Legacy - present in all of those are - well if not Jedi, then lightsaber wielding, robe wearing, Force users at least. And I think there's an expectation is that the party could be mixed. Soldiers, bounty hunters, smugglers, Jedi or some kind of Jedi-equivalent. Especially since that's the case in most of the movies. If they're all low level - they're all low level. Padawans are fine or whatever if they're part of the order. But I mean, at the very least, they gotta start with a lightsaber, right?

I mean, I'm a fan of Star Wars that's looking for a Star Wars RPG that I can play with a group. And so far, the mechanics as described sound pretty cool! But I've barely got the time to make the campaign - I can't spend hours mucking about with the rules because I want to play in literally any era except the Rebellion Era. (Lets just say the planet Hoth has been visited more than once, you know?) I bought every SAGA book for completions sake and almost skipped the Rebellion Era sourcebook because that's how uninterested I am in Rebellion Era.

And hey, I guess it could totally work to just plop them into a different era and have some padawans on the team - but from all the descriptions it's not designed to work that way. And usually when you run games counter to the way the game is designed, things break.

But is that right? Would the game break under that kind of load?

apollyonbob said:

I kind of agree. I really think that they should have started with the focus on the Rebellion, and made the second book Edge of The Empire, and included basic Jedi rules in the Rebellion book, while waiting to print detailed Jedi stuff until the Jedi specific book.

But, you can still make a jedi in this. He or she just won't be entirely focused on being a jedi. without some houseruling of some kind, which should be very easy in this system.

Honestly, giving some skills to the force exile specialty and making it a starting option should be just as easy as making a new race. In other words, damn near trivial.

Maybe they should just include quick guidelines for doing that as a kludge for groups that really want to start out with a full Jedi, and a reminder that "real", official jedi rules will come later.

Note: I don't think the game will necessarily break if you run things in a different era.

I'm already thinking that if the game looks about like it does when it finally ships, I'll be houseruling the price of the Force specialty down to the same cost as a specialty within your carreer. There's no reason to take it if you don't want to play a force user, and I see no reason to try to mechanically discourage force users. DO that with suggestions in the book, and only with suggestions, and let us decide how we want to play the game we're paying you for. I could play a game set in a semi primitive world, or one we know from EU canon didn't suffer force user extermination at the hands of the empire, but for some reason, the game wants to try to force me away from playing a Kilian Ranger, Dathomiri, Jensaari or any other force tradition that wasn't whiped out by the Empire.

It's a bit silly.