mouthymerc said:

That came from the original RPG, to keep everyone from using them. The original RPG informed most of the EU afterwards.

There wasn't anything in the films before that to imply that they were hard or dangerous to use. 

venkelos said:

I don't know who gave you that advice, but it was dead wrong. Not only is that character concept perfectly valid in EotE, you have all the rules to cover it and I have a PC in my game that is very similar.

So there you go - problem solved.

:)

Doc, the Weasel said:

So? I have seen people using the WEG game and the EU to point out how much we need Jedi (and lightsabers) and all that goes along with that in the game, or it isn't Star Wars. Therefore it doesn't make my suggestion any less valid.

gribble said:

The one thing that you can not have, unless a GM allows for it, is a lightsaber. Which is usually part and parcel of anyone wanting to play a former Jedi in hiding. Besides, any player who could have his character get his hands on a lightsaber would try to use it whenever he could, even with only attribute dice. It is just too uber a weapon to not try and use it.

mouthymerc said:

Sadly, I'm rather inclined to agree. In my WEG play, my character DID have his lightsaber, and one whole Force power. With the no self-learning rules, that meant that the Force power would never improve, but my lightsaber was at 5D, so at least he was good at that. His character concept, though, had him distance himself from the Force, the Jedi, and stuff, so the party didn't even know I had one till near the end, when we were in the final mission to save the B-Wing prototypes. I managed to make due with a blaster pistol for the rest of the game. I used the "this weapon attracts all the wrong attention" rules throughout.

In EotE, I would, of course, want said character to have one, but as he was new to the Order when the fit hit the shan, he certainly hadn't made one, and maybe his Master hadn't presented him one, or some such. That would give him a very nice milestone to reach, finding one, or being Force-inspired to build one. If he did get one, either way, he'd hide it most of the time. My characters usually have some secret the party is unaware of; my D&D group still don't know that I am their exiled King, or that I have Spellfire, as I've done a good job of hiding these details, so I have some experience with it.

Lightsabers being what they are in this game, a powerful weapon of destructive cheese, and a legend held by the dead, more than a weapon "regular" people see or hold, I probably would elect to start the game without one, since their ridiculous cost is hard to waive, and it might be fun to have that to strive for the future.

mouthymerc said:

Those are the key words "unless a GM allows for it". Sure, it is at GM discretion, but I'd probably allow it if the PC had a good backstory. Of course, I'd prefer the backstory to include recently losing the lightsaber, which comes with both built in Obligation and/or Motivation and a good reason for the "Jedi" to suddenly come out of hiding…

I also wouldn't allow the Lightsaber skill until the "Jedi" found a teacher, which would sort of balance the weapon a bit. That and the fact that using it where anyone can see it will bring Imperial attention down on the wielder's head.

gribble said:

This feels like the usual plan for the weapon. I have a Jedi character, named Ender, who is my most recent PC creation, and I really wished I could fabricate a variant of him, for this game, but he is rather cheesetastic, any way you look at it, and until they print another book with more Force powers, he'd be missing a few important ones. To that effect, I came up with a bit of a variant to him. This very different version was barely a Padawan near the end of the Clone Wars. His Force training was laughable, and he barely knew how to hold a lightsaber. He got foolishly injured, and needed medical attention, but the only nearby facility was in Separatist space, so they went under cover. Said cover held, but then she (his Master) got a call that Grievous had been sighted, and she went to engage him. She had Ender's lightsaber, to maintain his disguise, and took it with her, planning to come back later, either with Grievous destroyed, or having not been there, at all. Sadly, she didn't survive that encounter, and Grievous captured several more sabers.

While Ender recuperated, the Clone Wars came to an end, and it became very dangerous to be a Jedi. For X years (I don't know exactly where EotE claims to fall, between the end of the Clone Wars, the Force Unleashed games , and the main movies, but I like to hope that the Rebellion is beginning to form up), he lived his life as a nobody, not using his Force powers, learning other skills, and surviving out on the Rim. Finally, when the game starts, he has made a decision, to see how strong the Empire's attention still is. He can't restart the Order, he knows that, but he could reclaim his birthright, and help topple the evil behemoth that now rules. He needs to reclaim his lightsaber, though, as a test of the self. He has been researching things, and knows that Grievous fell on Utapau. He would go there, and see if he can learn what happened to Grievous, and his saber cache, after his defeat (Kenobi didn't have them, because his Clone Commander returned his). His travels through space, with the party, could be a great opportunity to find and follow leads, and the work with said group could pay his way. It was a rough idea I had, at work last night, anyway.

I suspect many of the GMs who let their players "have a lightsaber", will try to work something like this into it; it keeps the weapon from unbalancing things, and, as said, provides built-in RP opportunities, and Obligation/Motivation mechanics.

venkelos said:

I couldn't tell you where I heard/read this, but pretty sure it's set by default right after the destruction of the first Death Star (i.e.: between the end of A New Hope and the start of Empire Strikes Back).

venkelos said:

Nice idea. I could see tracking down Grevious' lightsabers as the focus for a campaign actually… hmmm…. thanks.

:)

gribble said:

Yeah, in a universe where making them has never been simple, even the Black Market might have ONE, and it costs a ship, the Empire controls the primary source of crystals, and owning a lightsaber is effectively a death sentence, finding an existing cache Jedi-made sabers could go a long way toward reforging the Jedi Order, or at least giving you, or some of your group, some nice, cheesy weapons to use, depending on your scope, and allegiances. Also, I don't particularly remember them ever actually saying what happened to them/Grievous, so it could be a nice, gray area, ripe for in-game interpretation. Kenobi went from once saber to no saber, then back to one, then to "running for his life", so he didn't have 8 on him, and starting out Jedi will need starting out sabers, even if Luke does figure out how to build them.

Silly, odd, little quandary for folks. I am very pleased that lightsabers get Sunder, seeing as that's what they do (Breach + Sunder), but how easy is it to sunder something? Is it a real worry, if you have a lightsaber, and they have one, that your priceless, "good luck replacing THAT weapon" lightsber is going to get cleaved in half, leaving you in the unique position of not being able to readily replace a lost weapon? I mean, if your gun breaks, and you survive, you go buy a new one, but lightsabers aren't so easily waved off like that, especially in this setting. What's the breakdown here? Thanks.

venkelos said:

As a GM, I would never, ever arbitrarily break a characters lightsaber. Like you said, breaking a blaster pistol or a vibroblade isn't as big a deal - you pick up something off a badguy to use until you get get to the next weapon's dealer or sporting goods outfitter to get a replacement. You can't do that with a lightsaber, and that's something you're going to have to take into account and enter an agreement with your GM or player.

In the entirety of the six movies, I believe we see four instances of characters who have their lightsabers damaged or lost - Darth Maul gets his cut in half during his fight with Obi-Wan Kenobi. Later in that same fight, Obi-Wan's saber is kicked down the reactor shaft by Darth Maul. I believe Dooku was disarmed of his weapon before he was more literally disarmed (okay, dishanded). Finally Luke lost his lightsaber when he lost his hand. It's possible that Vader's was destroyed when Luke returned the favor on the second Death Star, but I don't know for sure.

If I was going to deprive a character of a weapon like a lightsaber, I'd make sure to have a damn good story reason for it, and make it clear to them that they are going to get another one. It may just take a little bit of time.

Doc, the Weasel said:

Not true.  Maybe no one mentioned it in the films (Which I'm struggling to remember, I THINK it was, but I could be very wrong on that) but there was only one type of person who could use them, no one else did, except special cases and they got taken out REAL fast.

Chris Brady said:

Do you know of an actual example? In the films there is nothing about it (Obi Wan and Han imply that they are simply outdated, in the same way that we don't use swords anymore), and Han uses it without any consequences. Hell, the prequels show a bunch of children swinging them around. 

As a side note, I think that lightsabers suffer from katana syndrome. There is so much mystique built around them that people start to think that they are the uber-weapon. I don't see them doing so much more than blasters. People get one-shotted by both left and right. I get giving them breach and sunder, but everyone wants to heap all this other stuff onto them. They are just laser-swords.

Doc, the Weasel said:

Han uses it to cut open a tauntaun. That doesn't mean they're not dangerous and at that point he is probably more familiar with having spent time with Luke. The sabers used by the kids are training sabers and not lethal. Sting a bit yes, but nowhere near on the level of an actual saber.

Doc, the Weasel said:

I completely agree that they have been blown out of proportion. But they are known, now, to be extremely difficult and dangerous in the hands of untrained. Whether from WEG or the EU, this is a point of information on them now.

Cyril said:

Don't forget Anakin's lightsaber getting cut in half during the droid factory scene in Episode II. "Not again…Obi-Wan's gonna kill me.." I'd say a particularly bad set of rolls, with a Despair or two thrown in there; coupled with your Obligation being active; would be sufficient to disable/break a lightsaber. 

Of course, that example is during a time when lightsabers can and replaced be made without too much hullabaloo. In any case, I agree with the "damn good story reason" sentiment. 

mouthymerc said:

Dangerousness aside, they are iconic of the "fabled Jedi." The mystique is more contained in what they represent, not what they are inherently capable of. Even so, in the minds of masses, I'm sure that particular line is blurred (and kept blurry by the Jedi Order during their time), resulting in all kinds of different views of what exactly a lightsaber is.