VelosaRaptor said:

There's also now 3 books you have to buy to play Dust Warfare and the number of books is still growing.   The tanks are the same price, imperial guard are £1.80 and Dust comparable infantry are £3 each, so neither of your argumants hold up.    When DT first came out under AEG, the game was excellent value - not so true now.  PS, I don't play  or collect 40K.

Admittedly the soldiers come to $4 USD apiece now, where they used to be about $3, so that argument (same soldier price) is true. But the tanks being the same price? Huh, where are you that that is happening? Honest, here in the USA the big models are $40, the walkers range from $25 to $30. Compare this to GW's prices of $45 to $50 for a model (usually a walker) the size of a Dust walker, and $50 to $60+ for a tank or similarly sized model, and the price differences start adding up real quick. For instance, my SSU force of two command squads, 2 battle squads, a close combat squad, a rifle squad, two KV-47s and Capt. Koshka and Gran'ma adds up to about $210, while a similarly-sized 40K force would cost about $260 (or more). So it's still a better deal. Add an SSU tank ($40) and compare it to the $60 cost of a GW tank and the gap just grows.

This gap widens considerably when you take into account the standard tournament army size. In Dust, it's 300-400 points; my SSU force fits that quite nicely. In 40K it's 1500-2000 points; with Space Marines (one of the cheapest cost armies because of the high unit cost) that's about 30-40 troops and HQ (about 700 points and about $140-150), a couple of elites (150-250 and about $50 points per), and three or so tanks, usually including a Land Raider (600-700 points and $180+), plus some other items to round it out. Sooo, that's a Dust tournament for $250, and a 40K tournament for $430-450, or almost TWO Dust tournament armies!

both my arguments hold up, my point was that if gw developed dust to even start playing you would have to buy 2 books the rules and the faction book, read what i said. to play dust you need one book you can download stat cards and print them, again read what i said and know what you are talking about. 40 k is a crap game and is unbalanced.

VelosaRaptor said:

know what you are talking about before you post major mishap.

know what you are talking about before you post major mishap.

VelosaRaptor said:

I do and the things I posted are 100% accurate.  The SSU tanks and IG tanks are both £31 in UK, DT infantry do cost more than GW infantry and there are 3 DW books you need to buy.

Wow. My sympathies, man. That sucks that the Dust heavies are essentially $52 where you are! To be a comparable price to the US, they'd be about 23 pounds… And you say Dust troops cost more than $20 USD per box? Again, that sucks!

But, the 40K tanks you mention cost about $55-60 USD here (Leman Russ, Predator)…

Major Mishap said:

lol, pretty sure GW outraces FFG pretty quick on books you need to buy.

It's also on relative in playable games.  40k likes to think they can play at any point level, but anything less than 1000 points and preferrably 1500+ points are where your playable armies are at.  You would spend 3x the amount than you would on a 300 point Dust force.  And the 3 books (you don't really need unless you play the SSU), still compare cumulatively to one of the new GW codices.

Warboss Krag said:

Everything is more expensive in the UK, no matter which game you play. I'm about to order CB Hades from the US (because it STILL isn't out in the UK as of this post), and the US price of the book plus international shipping equals the UK price of the book minus domestic shipping. The only reason why I don't order more stuff from the US is because I want to support UK retailers (as insane, on one level, as that might be).

In Dust's defence, at least we don't have to suffer the Annual Arbitrary Price Hike of Doom that 40K players do. The SSU stuff is a bit more expensive, but the Allies and Axis boxes, as well as the Warfare books, are still the same price. FFG's digital policy is also a lot better, publishing PDFs that are just digital copies of the paper book, without unnecessary extras.

However, in GW's defence, they actually announce dates for things and then release on those dates! Their stores are also stocked really well (in London at least) and I can always find the paint I need when I walk into one.

Also don't forget that the GW codices are going to be way more expensieve that the DW books, for the price of the current csm codex I could get myself both the rule and zverograd if I wanted and still have cash to spare.

Yeah, the codex costs are what caused me to back away from GW when I was looking for a wargame.  I don't mind them making money, but I want to play it at hame with my wife, so that means two armies, codexs, a rulebook, and easilly $500 plus inital cost…  not counting terrain…

Dust?  Really, not that bad a cost.

Agreed on all counts, particularly the codex prices and the 'Annual Price Hike of Doom' (I like that phrase!). However, GW is at least better than Battlefront (Flames of War): They want $50 USD @ for their army books, and the majority of 'em only cover one army during one campaign…and then the binding is such poor quality that the books actually fall apart with minimal use! At least GW books seem to last (lot of friends who play Fantasy, and their books have taken years of pounding).

Warboss Krag said:

Actually battle front is tons better than gw, i am referencing my Eastern Front book for this and i can go over my North Africa book if need be but gw is currently charging 50USD for the Chaos Marine book,  which only contains 1 army list, and is cool that it's in full color now but that's about all the appeal of it. I was lucky that my FLGS charges 35 for the chaos book and i picked it up. Dust stuff is awesome there seeing as how i got the core book for 30USD and the two campaign books for 15 USD each, that's besides the point.

My Eastern front book has been with me for a little over a year now and is still in good condition, none of the spine issues people talk of, everything is nice and organized in it. and for 50USD you get 17 diffferent german army lists [ and 12 of which have variants for Heer or SS] 2 FInnish army lists 3 Hungarian   2 italian 3 Romanian and 9 Russian army lists for a total of 34 different army lists that focus on the mid war east euro theatre.

the smaller books that have 'only one army' in them cost about 32 USD normaly and actually have [referencing my blood guts and glory book from memory] about five german lists and four american lists in it, and have no binding issues what so ever.

not trying to fanboy battle front, just making corrections.

now as to how i feel about Dust Warfare as compared to Warhammer 40,000 is that the game is a much simpler one to pick up and start playing, it is generally cheaper [my store having the recon gren box for 12 USD compared to the Cadian Shock troop box for 21,.25 USD and the new SSU Superheavy for 30USD compared to the 37 USD leman russ]. I find Dust figures much easier to paint and a lot more fun to paint than games workshop figures. The only downside is that there are less players then warhammer 40,000 at the store and it's a little hard to fully understand the game when people also try to teach house rules to you at the same time, which helps nothing. [I.E. if bringing a HEavy Panzer Walker one must inform the opponent before hand so they can bring their's or gear the list to take it down, or that Vehicles can't see or be seen through buildings regardless of height or intactness of said building] but even with that i find Dust Warfare to be a much better system than games workshops flagship. the only major problem with the game being that the company is obviously marketing Tactics with their release schedule rather than Warfare but I will see if i can get people to do the board game so they don't get all pissy when icarus comes out after all the shiny new flyers have been out for a month