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Figured I should probably get around to posting this. As anyone who has spent some time building regiments knows, not all Homeworlds are of equal value for their cost. Below I provide a baseline, and in the next post I will present my own alternate interpretation.
Homeworld
Each point spent from the Regimental budget grants X number of build points to apply when designing the home world’s benefits:
Cost Benefit
1 Four build points
2 Five build points
3 Six build points
Characteristics: Every three points of Characteristic bonuses count as one build point.
Skills: Each skill posessed costs one build point.
Talents: Each talent possessed costs one build point.
Special Features: Special features such as Abundant Resources or Accustomed to crowds cost one build point.
Wounds: Each bonus Wound costs one build point, while each reduction to a character’s starting Wounds grants one build point. No home world may increase or decrease a character’s starting Wounds by more than two.
Drawbacks: Rules such as Wary of Outsiders or Hivebound provide one additional build point. No Home World may possess more than two drawbacks.
Imperial World (1. 5 of 4)
2 +6 Characteristics
4 Linguistics, Common Lore x2, Talent
-1 Blessed Ignorance
Penal Colony (2. 5 of 5)
2 +6 Characteristics
3 Intimidate, Talent, +1 Wound
1 Larcenous
-1 Scum & Villany
Death World (3. 5 of 6)
2 +6 Characteristics
4 Survival, Talent, +2 Wounds
-1 Wary of Outsiders
Fortress World (3. 5 of 6)
2 +6 Characteristics
5 Common Lore x3, Talent x2
-2 Hated Enemy, Bred for War
Highborn (3. 6 of 6)
2 +6 Characteristics
4 Common Lore, Inquiry, Linguistics, Talent
2 Abundant Resources, Duty & Honor
-2 Duty & Honor, -1 Wound
Hive World (3. 4 of 6)
2 +6 Characteristics
3 Common Lore, Deceive, Talent
1 Accustomed to Crowd
-2 Hivebound, -1 Wound
Penitent (3. 8 of 6)
2 +6 Characteristics
4 Common Lore x2, Intimidate, Talent
3 Untempered Zeal, +2 Wounds
-1 Only one Life to Give
Schola Progenium (3. 8 of 6)
2 +6 Characteristics
6 Common Lore x3, Linguistics, Talent, +1 Wound
As one can see, three Homeworlds give superior benefit for their cost, while two homeworlds provide substandard benefits.
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Alternate Interpretation
It is my personal belief that Common Lore Skills are not worth a full build point give their limited usefulness. Under this assumption Common Lore skills only costs half a build point per skill.
Imperial World (1. 4 of 4)
2 +6 Characteristics
3 Linguistics, Common Lore (Imperium, Imp. Creed), Hatred (Mutants)
-1 Blessed Ignorance
Hive World (1. 4 of 4)
2 +6 Characteristics
3 Common Lore (Imperium, Tech), Deceive, Talent
1 Accustomed to Crowds
-2 Hivebound, -1 Wound.
Fortress World (2. 3 of 5)
2 +6 Characteristics
3 Common Lore x2 (War, Imp. Guard), Hatred (any one), +1 Wound
-2 Hated Enemy, Bred for War
Penal Colony (2. 5 of 5)
2 +6 Characteristics
3 Intimidate, Talent, +1 Wound
1 Larcenous
-1 Scum & Villany
Death World (3. 6 of 6)
2 +6 Characteristics
5 Survival, Die Hard, Talent, +2 Wounds
-1 Wary of Outsiders
Highborn (3. 6 of 6)
2 +6 Characteristics
4 Common Lore (Imperium, Calixis Sector), Inquiry, Linguistics, Talent
2 Abundant Resources, Duty & Honor
-2 Duty & Honor, -1 Wound
Penitent (3. 6 of 6)
2 +6 Characteristics
4 Common Lore x2, Intimidate, Talent
2 Untempered Zeal, +1 Wound
-2 Only one Life to Give, Supplicant
Supplicant: When faced with direct challenges to the underlying tenets of the Imperial faith (whether these take the form of mockery, reasoned debate or gentle criticism) the character reacts violently. He may take a Willpower Test to suppress these violent urges, modified by the provocation and the consequences (set by the GM) of succumbing to his anger.
Schola Progenium (3. 6 of 6)
2 +6 Characteristics
5 Common Lore (Imperium, Imp. Guard or War), Linguistics, Talent, +1 Wound
-1 Sheltered Upbringing
Sheltered Upbringing: Despite their extremely well-rounded education, the progena are largely ignorant of the Imperium’s worse elements, breeding a disdain they can’t ever seem to manage to hide. You take a –10 penalty on all Charm, Command, Deceive and Scrutiny Tests when dealing with the worst of examples of humanity (cultists, traitors, narco-addicts, gutter scum, mutants and the like).
Fortress World's Hatred Enemy is a +0. It's only against one type of enemy, but you gain bonuses to hit the hatred enemy. Usually the targets for this wrath are Orks, Chaos, Dark Eldar, Tyranids, Tau, Kroot, and for Kronus Expanse folks you can pick Rak'Ghuls. All except for the Tau & Kroot you don't have friendly talks with Chaos, Orks, or DE. 'Nids can't be talked to at all. However it's just +0 due to only one target. So it's 4 of 5.
Manyfist said:
Fortress World's Hatred Enemy is a +0. It's only against one type of enemy, but you gain bonuses to hit the hatred enemy. Usually the targets for this wrath are Orks, Chaos, Dark Eldar, Tyranids, Tau, Kroot, and for Kronus Expanse folks you can pick Rak'Ghuls. All except for the Tau & Kroot you don't have friendly talks with Chaos, Orks, or DE. 'Nids can't be talked to at all. However it's just +0 due to only one target. So it's 4 of 5.
You're describing how the Talent works as written. There is no limitation inherent to the Fortress World's Hated Enemy that is not present in the base talent:
Hatred
Tier: 2
Prerequisite: None
Specialisations: Chaos Space Marines, Daemons, Mutants, Psykers, Xenos (specific), other
It says that they gain the Hatred Talent,yet have to pass (+10 WP Test) in order to not attack violently.
Manyfist said:
It says that they gain the Hatred Talent,yet have to pass (+10 WP Test) in order to not attack violently.
Yes, and that is accounted for in the math, look at the Drawbacks line.
Mercucio said:
Manyfist said:
It says that they gain the Hatred Talent,yet have to pass (+10 WP Test) in order to not attack violently.
Yes, and that is accounted for in the math, look at the Drawbacks line.
I don't get how's its a drawback though. You get a free talent but under GM discretion test an ordinary WP test. The two cancel each other out really.
A good attempt, but you're assuming all drawbacks are made equal. Scum & Villainy and Only One Life to Give can be downright lethal, while others like Hated Enemy or Duty & Honour are almost irrelevant. In fact, Duty & Honor isn't even a drawback at all. It gives both a bonus and an equal penalty, so it's a zero-sum situation.
Manyfist said:
Mercucio said:
Manyfist said:
It says that they gain the Hatred Talent,yet have to pass (+10 WP Test) in order to not attack violently.
Yes, and that is accounted for in the math, look at the Drawbacks line.
I don't get how's its a drawback though. You get a free talent but under GM discretion test an ordinary WP test. The two cancel each other out really.
Exactly. So the Hatred Talent is 1 point [line 2, one of Talent x2 listed there] and the Hated Foe is -1 point [line 3]. The points are there for accounting--the results remain the same either way you look at it. For example if we remove Hatred and Hated Enemy from the equation we still get:
Fortress World (3. 5 of 6)
2 +6 Characteristics
4 Common Lore x3, Nerves of Steel
-1 Bred for War
JuankiMan said:
A good attempt, but you're assuming all drawbacks are made equal. Scum & Villainy and Only One Life to Give can be downright lethal, while others like Hated Enemy or Duty & Honour are almost irrelevant. In fact, Duty & Honor isn't even a drawback at all. It gives both a bonus and an equal penalty, so it's a zero-sum situation.
Agreed, though I suppose it is implicit that the GM will insure the drawback comes into play often enough to warrant the benefit. If one does not like the current mechanical effects of a drawback, you could always create a new one, or adapt an existing from another source (as seen in my second post).
And now to introduce some additional Homeworld options, converted from other WH40K sources.
Battlefleet
The great battle?eets of the Imperial Navy are among the most ordered and disciplined organizations in the Imperium. The men and women of the Imperial Navy’s of?cer class stand apart, even from other Void Born. They have their
own culture, and descend from a long and noble line of naval families and ship clans that can trace their lineage back millennia. It is with great distinction that these members serve the Golden Throne, persecuting renegades and pirates in the name of God-Emperor of Mankind. Many battlefleet members can trace their origins to the rulers of worlds that administer the battle?eets’ ships. Here their families collect and organise battle-won wealth, judiciously managing the spoils of war so that the great battle?eets may continue to serve the God-Emperor with distinction and honour.
The men and women of the Imperial Battlefleets are a proud, martially-minded people with a strong sense of honour. Crews live together on ship, eat together, and face the enemies of the Imperium together. Since they are trained from birth, they have knowledge of shipboard life that surpasses many of the most knowledgeable void-born. From the moment they are able, the people serving the Battlefleet are taught how to move about in zero gravity, deal with ship-board emergencies, and handle warp travel. As they mature, they progress on to more complicated pursuits such as learning ship-based weaponry, spatial navigation, and basic naval tactics. They learn the history of their ship and their Battlefleet, and they learn the pride that comes from being among the Emperor’s finest.
Members of the Battlefleets are a diverse and varied lot, but they have a few things in common with each other. They almost universally respect duty, loyalty, and integrity, and show great strength of character. Conversely, they despise those who show weakness, deceit, and those who are generally lazy and inconsistent. Compared to the Void Born of Chartist and trade vessels, they have a larger physical build, the result of living in more normal gravity conditions than that of their counterparts. Members of the battlefleets are also more respected for their role as humanity’s protectors among the stars.
This Home World has been added for those who wish to explore the opportunities for playing the Marines of the Imperial Navy or similar roles.
Cost: 2
Characteristic Modifiers: +3 Willpower or +3 Fellowship; +3 to any other Characteristic of choice
Skills: Battlefleet characters begin with Common Lore (Imperial Navy) (Int), Linguistics (Battlefleet Codes) (Int), and either Operate (Aeronautica: Spacecraft) (Ag) or Navigation (Stellar) (Int).
Tight Qaurters Work: Given the cramped conditions in which they fight, Battlefleet characters are adept at using the press of numbers to their advantage. Battlefleet characters start play with the Double Team talent.
Void Accustomed: Due to their rigorous training Battlefleet characters are used to the vagaries of changing gravity, rendering them immune to space travel sickness. In addition, zero- or low-gravity environments are not considered Difficult Terrain for such characters.
Ship-Bound Fighter: Living and training on a spacecraft is vastly different than living and training on the ground. Because of the close-in nature of ships, Battlefleet characters are unaccustomed to flghting in open spaces or on the “dirtside” of planets. While they are on a planet they suffer a –2 penalty to Initiative Tests and double the Ballistic Skill penalty for firing weapons at Long Range or greater. These penalties don’t apply to the character if they are inside a building, tunnel or other confined space.
Starting Wounds: Battlefleet characters determine their starting Wounds normally.
Forge World
Forge worlds are not environments that reward, let alone tolerate, weakness in body or in mind. To have survived and prospered enough to leave a forge world’s rigid society, your character must possess a great deal of drive, ambition and good fortune, or at the very least be bloody-minded and ruthless enough to have endured. You find yourself in a wider Imperial society that is at once familiar and strangely alien to you, where fools baulk in superstition at technology without understanding its spiritual mysteries and purity of essence. Nor do they seem to understand mankind’s survival demands power and, as the Omnissiah teaches, power is knowledge incarnate.
Cost: 1 points.
Characteristic Modifiers: +3 to Toughness or Willpower, +3 to any other Characteristic of choice.
Skills: All forge world characters start with Common Lore (Machine Cult) and Common Lore (Tech).
Credo Omnissiah: Rather than being fully indoctrinated into the Imperial Cult, even the lowliest member of a forge world’s society is brought up to venerate the spirits of the machine and to know and trust the basic rites of tech-propitiation. The character gains either the Tech-Use skill or the Technical Knock talent.
Stranger to the Cult: Although forge world born citizens know that the Emperor is their god and saviour, they see the Imperial Creed through the lens of Cult Mechanicus doctrine. As a result, they can be surprisingly—and sometimes dangerously—ignorant of the common teachings and practices of the Ecclesiarchy, often failing to offer its clerics the level of deference they expect. Forge world characters take a –10 penalty on Tests involving knowledge of the Imperial Creed, and a –5 penalty on Fellowship Tests to interact with members of the Ecclesiarchy in formal settings.
Starting Wounds: Forge world characters add 1 to their starting Wounds.
Frontier World
Frontier worlds can often barely be classified as “civilised.” The populace is rough and determined in equal measure, and many settlements on these worlds are ramshackle, resembling primitive, run-down, dry, dusty spots where life is harsh and unforgiving and justice comes from the barrel of a gun (or at the end of a rope). Here, the population must learn to survive on its own. There are no Adeptus Arbites Precinct-fortresses to maintain law, no PDF to protect the citizens from invasion, and no Fleet waiting in orbit to take them to safety. The people are tough and hard-working, used to living without the amenities that are taken for granted on other worlds. They are also insular and prefer to handle matters on their own, with little time for outsider interference.
Though poorly educated, those who are raised upon a frontier world have learned that survival is paramount. As a result they are surly, coarse, rough, and durable folk who often refuse to back down from a confrontation—even when faced with overwhelming odds (and especially if they feel they are right). They have little patience for small talk and even less for those who are dishonest and disreputable. They make excellent scouts and foragers. It’s also not unheard of for these people to conduct trade and associate with xenos races—even mutants—as most settlements lack an Imperial Cult representative to cow them into believing that these creatures are evil and should be shunned or destroyed.
Cost: 2
Characteristic Modi?ers: +3 Strength or Toughness, +3 to any other Characteristic of choice.
Skills: Frontier world characters begin with Awareness (Per) and Survival (Int) as trained Skills.
Leery of Outsiders: Frontier world characters are suspicious by nature. Because of this outlook, frontier world characters suffer a –10 penalty on all Fellowship Tests when dealing with someone they have not previously met (exactly when to apply this check is up to the GM).
Tenacious Survivalist: Life on the frontier can be filled with all manner of horrors. Frontier world characters learn at an early age to be wary of their surroundings, and react quickly in the face of danger. Frontier world characters begin play with the Lightning Reflexes Talent.
Xenos Interaction: It’s a common occurrence for humans on frontier worlds to interact—often times violently—and trade with xenos. Because of this interaction, Frontier World characters reduce the Fear rating of any xenos they ecounter by two levels, thus a frontier world character is effectively immune to any xenos creature with a Fear rating of 1 or 2. Of course, this outlook often puts them at odds with members of the Ecclesiarchy, never mind the Inquisition, and as such they suffer a –5 penalty to all Interaction Tests when dealing with members of the Imperial Cult or Holy Ordos.
Starting Wounds: Frontier world characters add 1 to their starting Wounds.
Frontier World
Frontier worlds can often barely be classified as “civilised.” The populace is rough and determined in equal measure, and many settlements on these worlds are ramshackle, resembling primitive, run-down, dry, dusty spots where life is harsh and unforgiving and justice comes from the barrel of a gun (or at the end of a rope). Here, the population must learn to survive on its own. There are no Adeptus Arbites Precinct-fortresses to maintain law, no PDF to protect the citizens from invasion, and no Fleet waiting in orbit to take them to safety. The people are tough and hard-working, used to living without the amenities that are taken for granted on other worlds. They are also insular and prefer to handle matters on their own, with little time for outsider interference.
Though poorly educated, those who are raised upon a frontier world have learned that survival is paramount. As a result they are surly, coarse, rough, and durable folk who often refuse to back down from a confrontation—even when faced with overwhelming odds (and especially if they feel they are right). They have little patience for small talk and even less for those who are dishonest and disreputable. They make excellent scouts and foragers. It’s also not unheard of for these people to conduct trade and associate with xenos races—even mutants—as most settlements lack an Imperial Cult representative to cow them into believing that these creatures are evil and should be shunned or destroyed.
Cost: 2
Characteristic Modi?ers: +3 Strength or Toughness, +3 to any other Characteristic of choice.
Skills: Frontier world characters begin with Awareness (Per) and Survival (Int) as trained Skills.
Leery of Outsiders: Frontier world characters are suspicious by nature. Because of this outlook, frontier world characters suffer a –10 penalty on all Fellowship Tests when dealing with someone they have not previously met (exactly when to apply this check is up to the GM).
Tenacious Survivalist: Life on the frontier can be filled with all manner of horrors. Frontier world characters learn at an early age to be wary of their surroundings, and react quickly in the face of danger. Frontier world characters begin play with the Lightning Reflexes Talent.
Xenos Interaction: It’s a common occurrence for humans on frontier worlds to interact—often times violently—and trade with xenos. Because of this interaction, Frontier World characters reduce the Fear rating of any xenos they ecounter by two levels, thus a frontier world character is effectively immune to any xenos creature with a Fear rating of 1 or 2. Of course, this outlook often puts them at odds with members of the Ecclesiarchy, never mind the Inquisition, and as such they suffer a –5 penalty to all Interaction Tests when dealing with members of the Imperial Cult or Holy Ordos.
Starting Wounds: Frontier world characters add 1 to their starting Wounds.
The problem with having those additional homewords is that it no longer is about the imperial guard. A Battlefleet force whould be part of the Imperial Navy who are not allowed to feild ground troops, I suppose if your intire campain was focused on ship to ship actions then possibly but that porberly best left for homebrew settings.
A Forge world origin would be nice but it appears you have taken the stats from the other 40kRPG systems, which would be incorrect; the Mechanicus of mars is and isnt part of the imperium and such dont raise troops for the imperial guard, instead they have their own veriant (i cannont remember the name) who are heavily augemented, It would be possible to still have it as a origin but it needs alot of work.
Frontier worlds dont provide troops for the Imperium as they are still undeveloped, Your suggestions for modifiers for the frontier worlds seem to be very close to that of a deathworld.
Possibly instead of a Frontier world, maybe a Feral world?
Possibly instead of a Battlefleet force possibly a Station (???) im not sure if the larger space stations provide troops for the Guard but stations like Footfallen would be sizable enougth to provide regiments.
"Victory? Victory is when your death scheduled for today is postponed to tommorow"
"What are the eight scariest words in the galaxy? 'We're the Inquisitationwe're here to help'"
Nefasine said:
The problem with having those additional homewords is that it no longer is about the imperial guard. A Battlefleet force whould be part of the Imperial Navy who are not allowed to feild ground troops, I suppose if your intire campain was focused on ship to ship actions then possibly but that porberly best left for homebrew settings.
A Forge world origin would be nice but it appears you have taken the stats from the other 40kRPG systems, which would be incorrect; the Mechanicus of mars is and isnt part of the imperium and such dont raise troops for the imperial guard, instead they have their own veriant (i cannont remember the name) who are heavily augemented, It would be possible to still have it as a origin but it needs alot of work.
Frontier worlds dont provide troops for the Imperium as they are still undeveloped, Your suggestions for modifiers for the frontier worlds seem to be very close to that of a deathworld.
Possibly instead of a Frontier world, maybe a Feral world?
Possibly instead of a Battlefleet force possibly a Station (???) im not sure if the larger space stations provide troops for the Guard but stations like Footfallen would be sizable enougth to provide regiments.
Skitarii are Forge-World Tech-guard. They answer not to the Ministorum but to AdMech, as each regiment is more a private army for a Magos than anything else.
There does need to be a Feral World option, Death World doesn't count.
Space stations like Footfall probably do raise guardsmen.
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